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Skill challenges: action resolution that centres the fiction
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8739174" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Just try to put this to bed once and for all (LOL AT THAT HAPPENING!...fast forward 2 years and let's have this same conversation for 11ty4th time again, eh?), this is the 2010 errata</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]258471[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]258472[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>The upshot of this should be clear:</p><p></p><p>* There is no such things as turns in 4e Skill Challenges. When you <strong>participate</strong>.</p><p></p><p>* There is no such thing as this prescriptive structure of unassailable, preplanned Primary Skills that must be hewed to. Not only do you not need to do that, but you're encouraged not to. Let players come up with clever, thematic moves in response to the situation/obstacle that has been framed and use the appropriate DC...which is outlined in the Skill Challenge Complexity part of the rules:</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]258473[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>So, effectively, Skill Challenges are like most conflict resolution on the gaming market and are exactly what I (and [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] and [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] ) have said above. </p><p></p><p>Goal/Stakes > Frame Situation/Obstacle > Player OODA Loop > Action Resolution (possibly with buff from fictional postioning-attendant power usage and/or with Secondary Skill and/or Advantage...or debuff from immediately preceding failure) or currency expenditure (Coin, Ritual, Daily) to ensure 1 or 2 successes > Change the Situation post Action Resolution w/ new Obstacle/Situation on success or appropriate Complication/Cost on failure > Rinse/Repeat until Win/Loss Con cements Stakes.</p><p></p><p>These aren't prescriptive railroads...they never needed to be even in DMG1...I've never run a designed prepared SC...I never needed to.</p><p></p><p>Yes, if you had prior indie game exposure with closed scene conflict resolution, you were surely better off in the grokking and execution of 4e Skill Challenges from the get-go. They could have done a better job with making the concepts, ethos, and techniques that undergird scene-based conflict resolution in games like Fate and Dogs in the Vineyard or Shadows of Yesterday etc. My guess is they knew they were already in shaky water with the Trad establishment of D&D (who was waging a scorched earth campaign on 4e well before release) so they limited the transparency of provocative indie concepts like Cut to the Action (except OOPS "Skip the gate guards and get to the fun!") and Fail Forward because they were in the middle of a TTRPG culture war at that time (and EVERYONE KNEW IT...I was living it) even though both Fail Forward and Cut to the Action were obviously and clearly in the text of 4e from the get-go.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8739174, member: 6696971"] Just try to put this to bed once and for all (LOL AT THAT HAPPENING!...fast forward 2 years and let's have this same conversation for 11ty4th time again, eh?), this is the 2010 errata [ATTACH type="full" alt="SKILLS.JPG"]258471[/ATTACH] [ATTACH type="full" alt="CLEVER IDEAS.JPG"]258472[/ATTACH] The upshot of this should be clear: * There is no such things as turns in 4e Skill Challenges. When you [B]participate[/B]. * There is no such thing as this prescriptive structure of unassailable, preplanned Primary Skills that must be hewed to. Not only do you not need to do that, but you're encouraged not to. Let players come up with clever, thematic moves in response to the situation/obstacle that has been framed and use the appropriate DC...which is outlined in the Skill Challenge Complexity part of the rules: [ATTACH type="full" alt="SC COMPLEXITY.JPG"]258473[/ATTACH] So, effectively, Skill Challenges are like most conflict resolution on the gaming market and are exactly what I (and [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] and [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] ) have said above. Goal/Stakes > Frame Situation/Obstacle > Player OODA Loop > Action Resolution (possibly with buff from fictional postioning-attendant power usage and/or with Secondary Skill and/or Advantage...or debuff from immediately preceding failure) or currency expenditure (Coin, Ritual, Daily) to ensure 1 or 2 successes > Change the Situation post Action Resolution w/ new Obstacle/Situation on success or appropriate Complication/Cost on failure > Rinse/Repeat until Win/Loss Con cements Stakes. These aren't prescriptive railroads...they never needed to be even in DMG1...I've never run a designed prepared SC...I never needed to. Yes, if you had prior indie game exposure with closed scene conflict resolution, you were surely better off in the grokking and execution of 4e Skill Challenges from the get-go. They could have done a better job with making the concepts, ethos, and techniques that undergird scene-based conflict resolution in games like Fate and Dogs in the Vineyard or Shadows of Yesterday etc. My guess is they knew they were already in shaky water with the Trad establishment of D&D (who was waging a scorched earth campaign on 4e well before release) so they limited the transparency of provocative indie concepts like Cut to the Action (except OOPS "Skip the gate guards and get to the fun!") and Fail Forward because they were in the middle of a TTRPG culture war at that time (and EVERYONE KNEW IT...I was living it) even though both Fail Forward and Cut to the Action were obviously and clearly in the text of 4e from the get-go. [/QUOTE]
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