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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4162269" data-attributes="member: 22779">Of course he would require three more successes.&nbsp; You still haven't disarmed the ENCOUNTER.&nbsp; A further three failures would see the dryad attack, for example.&nbsp; Depending on how much poking and prodding the PC's do, it could still set off the trap.&nbsp; Note, the skill challenge is not limited to one single element - the trap.&nbsp; The skill challenge includes all elements in the scene - the trap plus the dryad.Nothing in the scenario above is time constrained, so, the amount of time they take is irrelevant.&nbsp; The trap going off spontaneously could easily be one result of four failures.&nbsp; The dryad getting more and more frantic as the PC's gather around the trap to check it out and then getting antagonisitic is another.&nbsp; Heck, on the fourth failure, a crow lands on the corpse, pecks out its eye and the trap goes off.Again, you equate Trap with Scene.&nbsp; They have enough successes to defeat the scene.&nbsp; Thus, nothing that happens afterwards will be bad.&nbsp; Perhaps the trap is a dud.&nbsp; I imagine that the DMG will include advice on how to handle this.&nbsp; It's no different really than if you want to bang on the trapped chest - it goes off.&nbsp; You failed, not because of the 4 failures, but because you chose not to accept the skill challenge at all.But, say you shoot the body down with an arrow.&nbsp; The body falls and bursts open.&nbsp; Now, how does the dryad react to this?&nbsp; Suppose that you now get six successes and calm the dryad down.&nbsp; Did you succeed or fail the skill challenge?&nbsp; The trap is disarmed and the dryad is friendly.&nbsp; I'd say you succeeded.In an RPG there is no such thing as causality.&nbsp; Only what the DM rules happens.&nbsp; If something is unknown to the players, then it does not exist as far as the players are concerned.&nbsp; It's more of a quantum approach to the game - everything has occured can be known, but, until such time as it has been resolved, all bets are off.And that applies to the DM as well.&nbsp; But, in the end, Celebrim, the problem is that you have artificially narrowed the challenge to exclude all the actors.&nbsp; There is the trap AND the dryad and they are both included in the skill challenge.&nbsp; There is no one right way to solve the skill challenge and there can be any number of possible resolutions that range from catastrophic failure to perfect success.I can really see this shift requiring a lot of reevaluation of how we DM because D&amp;D has never been presented in this way before.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4162269, member: 22779"] Of course he would require three more successes. You still haven't disarmed the ENCOUNTER. A further three failures would see the dryad attack, for example. Depending on how much poking and prodding the PC's do, it could still set off the trap. Note, the skill challenge is not limited to one single element - the trap. The skill challenge includes all elements in the scene - the trap plus the dryad. Nothing in the scenario above is time constrained, so, the amount of time they take is irrelevant. The trap going off spontaneously could easily be one result of four failures. The dryad getting more and more frantic as the PC's gather around the trap to check it out and then getting antagonisitic is another. Heck, on the fourth failure, a crow lands on the corpse, pecks out its eye and the trap goes off. Again, you equate Trap with Scene. They have enough successes to defeat the scene. Thus, nothing that happens afterwards will be bad. Perhaps the trap is a dud. I imagine that the DMG will include advice on how to handle this. It's no different really than if you want to bang on the trapped chest - it goes off. You failed, not because of the 4 failures, but because you chose not to accept the skill challenge at all. But, say you shoot the body down with an arrow. The body falls and bursts open. Now, how does the dryad react to this? Suppose that you now get six successes and calm the dryad down. Did you succeed or fail the skill challenge? The trap is disarmed and the dryad is friendly. I'd say you succeeded. In an RPG there is no such thing as causality. Only what the DM rules happens. If something is unknown to the players, then it does not exist as far as the players are concerned. It's more of a quantum approach to the game - everything has occured can be known, but, until such time as it has been resolved, all bets are off. And that applies to the DM as well. But, in the end, Celebrim, the problem is that you have artificially narrowed the challenge to exclude all the actors. There is the trap AND the dryad and they are both included in the skill challenge. There is no one right way to solve the skill challenge and there can be any number of possible resolutions that range from catastrophic failure to perfect success. I can really see this shift requiring a lot of reevaluation of how we DM because D&D has never been presented in this way before. [/QUOTE]

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