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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4162305" data-attributes="member: 4937">Which rather neatly evades the point, which was that for a given scene, a very direct path might end up tying up more loose ends than a less direct one while racking up fewer successes.    And as a whole, you spend alot of time arguing for something I'm not really arguing against.  See the last comment of the post you are responding too.  Yes, of course you can create various post hoc rationalizations and descriptions within the system that are logical and from the players perspective consistant.  I freely concede that.  In fact, the existance of these explanations is necessary to understand my concern.  The fact that you tumble out claims like, 'the amount of time they take is irrelevant' and 'The trap going off spontaneously could easily be one result of four failures' and 'on the fourth failure, a crow lands on the corpse, pecks out its eye and the trap goes off' and 'Perhaps the trap is a dud' as an argument against my concern leads me to think I'm not explaining my point well enough for you to understand what it is.Seriously, you think 'Schrodinger's trap' is an argument against my concern that causality is now fuzzy?No, that isn't the problem, because as soon as you start saying things like 'In RPG's causality don't exist' and 'It's more of a quantum approach' then AFAIC you've conceeded my point.After conceeding my main and larger point to me, talking about how my problem is that I haven't mentioned the dryad (or the possibility of a crow arriving) in a particular example is rather much nitpicking.This is a feature of RPG's rather than a feature of the skill challenge resolution system.And it is really ironic that after spending your post telling me how wrong I am (while conceeding pretty much everything too me), you end in this way, because isn't this my point?  Isn't my point ultimately that the skill challenge system requires you to DM in a way that is not only different from how D&D is normally ran, but which is different from how the mechanics of the rest of 4e D&D requires the game to be run?  Hense my complaints of 'incoherency' and all the rest?</blockquote>

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