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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 4162306" data-attributes="member: 5890">This was a fault with the DM's description. If the trap is the only element in the scene, and it takes 6 successes to overcome it, then obviously the result of the third success shouldn't be "the scene is effectively over".Which, apart from anything else, it's not. At the end of your described scenario, your players are holding a dangerous, still armed device. Again - another thievery check shouldn't immediately disarm the trap.Well, for a start, each failed insight check should be described in some way as making things worse. Giving radically wrong information, and the like.If you can't imagine a way that that could happen, then perhaps that skill check should be ignored for the purposes of the challenge. Under 3e's skill system, the limit is 1 knowledge check each on each knowledge the characters have, and if you fail, you just don't gain anything useful.Again - each check should be having some impact. If you can't think up an impact that the check should be having, then it's probably not an appropriate check. Under 3e there's a similar limit (ie - how much info has the DM prepared). Chances are most DMs do this anyway - there's info available, and the first few decent rolls on slightly appropriate knowledge checks get anything that might help.The action counts against a failure. The body falls and starts leaking gas. One or more characters pass out within the gas cloud. Con checks allow other characters to hold their breath and rescue them.Once a certain amount of dice rolling is done, the encounter is over.The key thing is - it's easy for the DM to, as you've described, let an encounter just go on and on and on, giving the players no feedback about progress in the positive or negative, and in the end resulting in a boring time being had by all.I feel that the x/y system just encourages a DM (and players) to think about non combat encounters in terms of progress, and if something isn't making things progress, he handwaves it and moves on.</blockquote>

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