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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4162374" data-attributes="member: 63763">I like the idea of the x/y concept. A lot of groups will go into a "routine" of trying every possible skill until they figure it out. With a sort of "limit" on not just the number of failures, but also the ammount of actions they can take towards the "goal", they need to figure out the best path to the goal. If the players aren't able to disable the trap after having acheived the 'right' number of successes, then at least some of the actions haven't really been 'helping', and thus wouldn't count as successes. Jumping ahead [i.e. going straight to disabling a trap without getting TO the trap, or figuring out WHAT the trap is] would be difficult, making the number of successes relevant. For a trap like this you need to:Notice the trapFigure out that it's a trapFigure out what kind of trap it isGet to itGet it downDisable itThe 'last' success is disabling it, but you need to do the other things in some sort of order to be able to complete the challenge. Which skill you use in some cases is interchangeable. And, there are chances of failure at various points. Instead of relying on a "fail by 5 or more causes something bad to happen", an accumulation of failures results in a failure of the challenge. The trap is set off, or in the case of a social encounter, the person is no longer willing to talk with the party, etc.Also, the idea of initiative is a good idea. I've been in a few parties where out of combat, suddenly everyone wants to do "stuff", and it becomes a game of whoever can get the DMs attention does as many things as possible. On Saturday, for example, someone kept making an Open Lock check so many times in a row, without anyone else acting apparently, that they set off high level security systems. It would, in this system, be a single character failing the same skill check 4 times in a row and failing the skill challenge for the party before anyone else had a chance to act. With initiative or some other "you are in a skill challenge" announcement, than you can get a discussion, either in character or out, of who should do what. Perhaps the "first" success, for example a passive perception to notice the 'trap', or some type of diplomacy check to set up a meeting with an important NPC, sets up the skill challenge, at which point the PCs should 'know' they are in a skill challenge. And, having played a rogue, as much fun as it is to see a door, then say "I take 10, 23 on my search, I take 10, 20 on my listen at the door, I take 10, 25 on my disable, I take 10, 25 on my Open Lock, everyone ready? open the door", not to mention the "wall crawl" looking for hidden doors ... I like the idea of traps being designed as a group effort and an encounter unto itself instead of just a single roll and either you get past it or not.</blockquote>

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