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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4164339" data-attributes="member: 4937">Walter Kovacs: There is no 'sequence'.&nbsp; If there is a sequence in which you must do A in order to do B, then we are fundamentally doing without the skill challenge framework.pemerton: You may be right, but I never had a hankering to play nar D&amp;D. VannATLC: Dungeon crawling is enherently simulationist, with a map, and an encounter table, causality tends to only go forward, and multiple parties playing the same encounter might approach it in different ways, but they could agree upon the details of what they interacted with.&nbsp; D&amp;D is tradiationally played fortune nearer to the end, and even in its most abstract (say hitpoints) its played more near the end than not.&nbsp;&nbsp; In the skill challenge as it is anticipated, none of this is true - fortune is nearer the beginning than the end, there isn't a map, there isn't a strict encounter table, 'A' doesn't necessarily lead to 'B', casuality works backward to maintain logical structure, and multiple parties approaching the challenge in different ways would not be able to agree on the details of what they interacted with.&nbsp;&nbsp; LostSoul: You are quite right to assert that hit points have always relied on a certain amount of fortune in the middle.&nbsp; For many this has caused difficulties with things like lava, falling from great height, and so forth.&nbsp; To a certain extent, yes, this is just moving further in one direction.Mistwell: There is initiative all the time, I just don't usually bother to track it unless it matters a lot who goes first.&nbsp; Any time that more than one player wants to do something at the same time, whether than wait for another to finish we need iniative.&nbsp; We need initiave whenever the players race themselves or anything else.&nbsp; There is no such thing as a 'combat challenge'.&nbsp; I merely inform the players that I need to begin tracking character's order in the turn.&nbsp; It's entirely up to the players how they want to approach the challenge that forces me to start tracking initiative - run away, try to open negotiations, fight, cast spells, use skills, whatever.&nbsp; You can do anything you want with your turn, not just tally a skill success or failure.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4164339, member: 4937"] Walter Kovacs: There is no 'sequence'. If there is a sequence in which you must do A in order to do B, then we are fundamentally doing without the skill challenge framework. pemerton: You may be right, but I never had a hankering to play nar D&D. VannATLC: Dungeon crawling is enherently simulationist, with a map, and an encounter table, causality tends to only go forward, and multiple parties playing the same encounter might approach it in different ways, but they could agree upon the details of what they interacted with. D&D is tradiationally played fortune nearer to the end, and even in its most abstract (say hitpoints) its played more near the end than not. In the skill challenge as it is anticipated, none of this is true - fortune is nearer the beginning than the end, there isn't a map, there isn't a strict encounter table, 'A' doesn't necessarily lead to 'B', casuality works backward to maintain logical structure, and multiple parties approaching the challenge in different ways would not be able to agree on the details of what they interacted with. LostSoul: You are quite right to assert that hit points have always relied on a certain amount of fortune in the middle. For many this has caused difficulties with things like lava, falling from great height, and so forth. To a certain extent, yes, this is just moving further in one direction. Mistwell: There is initiative all the time, I just don't usually bother to track it unless it matters a lot who goes first. Any time that more than one player wants to do something at the same time, whether than wait for another to finish we need iniative. We need initiave whenever the players race themselves or anything else. There is no such thing as a 'combat challenge'. I merely inform the players that I need to begin tracking character's order in the turn. It's entirely up to the players how they want to approach the challenge that forces me to start tracking initiative - run away, try to open negotiations, fight, cast spells, use skills, whatever. You can do anything you want with your turn, not just tally a skill success or failure. [/QUOTE]

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