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<blockquote data-quote="Storm-Bringer" data-source="post: 4166156" data-attributes="member: 57832">Exactly.&nbsp; There is an indeterminate cloud of possible steps.&nbsp; Any six of which will solve the challenge, in any order.&nbsp; There isn't a specified order of steps that must be taken to solve the encounter.&nbsp; Hence, the actions are irrelevant.So, you are suggesting that the DM arbitrarily negate a success roll?Additionally, how are the players to 'build' on their successes?&nbsp; They can only continue to roll skill checks.&nbsp; The initial Athletics check has no relevance to the subsequent history check.In other words, you are advising adjustment of the success and failure tallies in the middle of an encounter.In fact, no.&nbsp; The more complex a task becomes, the more critical the need to perform steps in a certain order.Further, you are suggesting that the DM enforce a certain chain of events, which is exactly what this skill challenge system is designed to avoid.The only thing that determines which rolls progress someone to the solution is the meta-game success or failure.Precisely.&nbsp; Every roll affects the outcome, not every action.&nbsp; The action is only relevant to the sequence once the outcome is determined.&nbsp; Any given roll in the sequence is irrelevant until the final success or failure is rolled.&nbsp; The action of kicking the corpse around the clearing is only relevant when the final success or failure is rolled.Only because of the outcome.&nbsp; The description was not possible until the outcome was determined.&nbsp; No single action has a causal connection to any other action until the skill challenge is passed or failed.If they don't lead to each other in a causal fashion, then they have no connection whatsoever.&nbsp; Until the outcome is determined.&nbsp; Hence, there is no actual teamwork, which is what this system is designed to promote.&nbsp; If the goal is simply six successes regardless of the skill involved, then each player is free to do their own thing to garner those successes.&nbsp; The only aspect of teamwork present is that everyone is rolling a skill check.&nbsp; That is no greater progress towards teamwork than combat, where each player is doing their own thing.</blockquote>[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Storm-Bringer, post: 4166156, member: 57832"] Exactly. There is an indeterminate cloud of possible steps. Any six of which will solve the challenge, in any order. There isn't a specified order of steps that must be taken to solve the encounter. Hence, the [i]actions[/i] are irrelevant. So, you are suggesting that the DM arbitrarily negate a success roll? Additionally, how are the players to 'build' on their successes? They can only continue to roll skill checks. The initial Athletics check has no relevance to the subsequent history check. In other words, you are advising adjustment of the success and failure tallies in the middle of an encounter. In fact, no. The more complex a task becomes, the more critical the need to perform steps in a certain order. Further, you are suggesting that the DM enforce a certain chain of events, which is exactly what this skill challenge system is designed to avoid. The only thing that determines which rolls progress someone to the solution is the meta-game success or failure. Precisely. Every [i]roll[/i] affects the outcome, not every [i]action[/i]. The action is only relevant to the sequence [i]once the outcome is determined[/i]. Any given roll in the sequence is irrelevant until the final success or failure is rolled. The [i]action[/i] of kicking the corpse around the clearing is only relevant when the final success or failure is [i]rolled[/i]. Only because of the outcome. The description was not possible until the outcome was determined. No single action has a causal connection to any other action until the skill challenge is passed or failed. If they don't lead to each other in a causal fashion, then they have no connection whatsoever. Until the outcome is determined. Hence, there is no actual teamwork, which is what this system is designed to promote. If the goal is simply six successes regardless of the skill involved, then each player is free to do their own thing to garner those successes. The only aspect of teamwork present is that everyone is rolling a skill check. That is no greater progress towards teamwork than combat, where each player is doing their own thing.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]

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