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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vempyre" data-source="post: 4284689" data-attributes="member: 3892">So the argument here is that in the math thread ppl prove that complexity does affect the difficulty unlike what's stated in the DMG? I happen to be good in maths. Had 95 to 100% yearly averages all through high school and college (didn't go to university). Now there is two things about the maths thread for me. 1) I don't like maths as I used to like them, things for me changed when I realized most of that advanced <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> was barely usable in my life to a few rare exceptions, all because of context in real life changes everything. Simple maths can often be useful in daily life though. So for me analyzing the analysis to see if the math guys in that thread did or not an error is useless for my DnD sessions.2) I have enough experience in maths to know most mathematicians coming up with formulas on short notice usually fail to take many variables in consideration (myself included, when I liked maths, despite my success).When the math thread is 4 months old and almost all of the context have been accounted for in the calculations (making the calculation itself incredibly complex, mind you), maybe the result (if it's condensed into an useful single post) will be worth reading, analyzing and thinking about. Until then, it's not. My experience with maths tells me that until it's been analyzed over n over again for months by dozens of different ppl, that thread doesn't prove that complexity does affect difficulty in an average DnD game's skill challenge, considering the hundreds of variables it can entail.-----So?Does complexity really affect difficulty in a meaningful way as in does it affects if the characters will succeed if I choose complexity 1 or 6? After reading the math thread it seems obvious to me that some variables are still missing in there.My personal experience of applying maths to real life (I do that often for the business in the planning and budget yearly phases of management) where social factors have to be considered in says that when your math formula differs, in results, from your guts feelings, use your gut feelings because the math probably didn't take into account a very important factor that you instinctively know is there but can't just pinpoint with accuracy because it's part of your general knowledge of the system, it's synergies, and such.When I read the math thread my gut feelings tell me the same thing : something's missing in all those "calculations". And since I have the 20 years experience of DnD to back me up, I will trust my gut feelings more than those maths. And in my business, when I trust my gut feelings instead of the mat formulas in the planing phases, it's always been the right choice in 7 years of management and planning. Your mileage may vary. Mine might after a while too after I accumulate more experience specifically with 4E. But for now that's where I stand. My gut feelings look at the skill challenges chapter, computes the numbers unconsciously while thinking about various situations they could happen in, and it feels "right".</blockquote>

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