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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8195829" data-attributes="member: 6801845">In some ways I think the way many DMs used skill challenges in 4E put the cart in front of the horse.&nbsp; Throw together a bunch of skill checks which are somewhat divorced from the scene.&nbsp; Make sure that every PC has to do something.I think a better way is to figure out the scene and then figure out the challenge/obstacle.&nbsp; In other words, I like to set up a variety of challenges for my group.&nbsp; Sometimes that means a fight, sometimes it means any number of scenarios like getting from point A to point B when there are enemies in the way.So let's say they're trying to get past some guards.&nbsp; They know that there are two tanks in heavy armor, it's going to be difficult to get past.&nbsp; There are a lot of options, they can attack, they can try to sneak past hoping the tanks don't make too much noise, they can try to create a distraction so the tanks can walk by, they can try to talk their way through.But I'm not going to set up a skill challenge that says &quot;these are the appropriate skills and you must succeed at X before failing Y&quot;.&nbsp; I think of some options, try to give multiple options, think about some ways I might get around this if I were a player.&nbsp; I try to review what skills and backgrounds the PCs have to jog my thought process on options I can make available.Then I present the scenario, the guards react in ways I think are appropriate and I just kind of improvise what's happening based on what makes sense.&nbsp; Maybe they come up with some option I hadn't considered like putting the tanks into a portable hole while they sneak past.&nbsp; Maybe someone has Pass Without Trace or Dimension Doors with the tanks or they disguise them.&nbsp; Maybe a religion check can give them advantage on a deception check.The important thing to me is to think of scenarios and obstacles first, how the group is going to overcome those second.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 8195829, member: 6801845"] In some ways I think the way many DMs used skill challenges in 4E put the cart in front of the horse. Throw together a bunch of skill checks which are somewhat divorced from the scene. Make sure that every PC has to do something. I think a better way is to figure out the scene and then figure out the challenge/obstacle. In other words, I like to set up a variety of challenges for my group. Sometimes that means a fight, sometimes it means any number of scenarios like getting from point A to point B when there are enemies in the way. So let's say they're trying to get past some guards. They know that there are two tanks in heavy armor, it's going to be difficult to get past. There are a lot of options, they can attack, they can try to sneak past hoping the tanks don't make too much noise, they can try to create a distraction so the tanks can walk by, they can try to talk their way through. But I'm not going to set up a skill challenge that says "these are the appropriate skills and you must succeed at X before failing Y". I think of some options, try to give multiple options, think about some ways I might get around this if I were a player. I try to review what skills and backgrounds the PCs have to jog my thought process on options I can make available. Then I present the scenario, the guards react in ways I think are appropriate and I just kind of improvise what's happening based on what makes sense. Maybe they come up with some option I hadn't considered like putting the tanks into a portable hole while they sneak past. Maybe someone has Pass Without Trace or Dimension Doors with the tanks or they disguise them. Maybe a religion check can give them advantage on a deception check. The important thing to me is to think of scenarios and obstacles first, how the group is going to overcome those second. [/QUOTE]

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