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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8197577" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, but what I found was that using your 'Obsidian' rules didn't really fix the classic SC problems. Those were a matter of presentation of technique, and at least in the very early DMG1 presentation a problem of strange math and clunky rules.If you go with the most updated 4e SC rules, which are presented in the Essentials Rules Companion, they work QUITE well. The main purpose is to produce some predictability. The players understand what the process is for determining success of their endeavor, so they can judge what the cost/benefit equation is for any given action, and thus will be able to take exciting risks. The classic way to handle 'stuff' in D&D failed, because it was basically "keep rolling skill checks until the DM has had enough." You had no idea what the salience of a single check was, so why expend resources on turning it into a success? The narrative might help you some here, and you can hope your DM appreciates all this and has something in mind, but this is not at all guaranteed.Obviously Obsidian functioned to give salience, just like RC-grade 4e SC does, so I have no great criticism of it. However, I just didn't find it was BETTER. The real main things that need to happen to make a good SC, in any system, is PLOT. The situation depicted needs to evolve and move forward, with elements of tension and resolution at various points, like any drama. The original DMG examples were frankly just all terrible. They were largely static situations. Your presentation, way back in the day, definitely pointed out the need for 'flow'. I've always emphasized that as well, and to insure that the 'framing' of the challenge was correct (IE it encompassed within it the right 'chunk' of the story). I think framing flexibility can be an issue with Obsidian, because it already has a specific structure, which puts some limits on how it naturally 'fits' with the rest of the story.Another option that I am not so familiar with is to adopt techniques from something like BitD's 'clocks', which are basically a generalization of SC rules. With those techniques you can implement something that handles things like Obsidian, like classic 4e SC, RC grade 4e SC, as well as various other patterns.</blockquote>

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