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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mengu" data-source="post: 5383271" data-attributes="member: 65726">I think skill challenges as written are one way to resolve a challenge, but not the only one. The structure of X successes before Y failures should really not be a straight jacket, especially in a world where there are lots of shades of gray.Recently I had a situation where they killed most the enemies, but one got a away. The party decided it was important to catch them before they could warn their allies. I had to come up with a quick challenge on the spot. I ran it more like combat than a skill challenge. During the chase, they were climbing down cliffs, sliding down chutes, chasing through winding tunnels, and eventually playing a game of hide and seek when they caught up to their prey. I didn't even count successes or failures, but just ran it ad hoc, with each success getting them closer to their prey, and each failure dropping them a bit behind. Failed skill checks resulted in falls that inflicted injuries (loss of HP), and even knocked one already injured person unconscious, who had to be healed up. Failed endurance checks cost healing surges. And at the end, the escapee got one final swing in against the PC who caught up, in a desperate attempt to escape, but was rendered unconscious shortly after (and that last bit was played out with an opposed initiative check).So yes, skill challenges can be invisible if the consequences are made obvious at each step. You fail an athletics check to climb, and you might fall. You fail an acrobatics check to slide down a chute gracefully, and you might take some damage. You fail an endurance check to keep up and you may fall behind and/or lose healing surges. These are just natural consequences to actions. And don't really require a "knowledge of the structure."However sometimes, the challenge is in the form of a puzzle, something that needs to be carefully solved. A bomb that's about to explode if you get 3 failures before 8 successes could have a dire consequence. You have to identify the circuitry, check for booby traps, implement contingencies, and disarm, contain, or move the bomb in a tight time frame. So this would be a good challenge to let the players know what skills will be relevant, what options they have, tell them the relative difficulty involved, and ask who will do what.For me, skill challenges are not one size fits all, in mechanics and in transparency.</blockquote>

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