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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5386931" data-attributes="member: 22779">&quot;Roll for initiative&quot; is pretty close to &quot;this is combat.&quot;Or, put it another way, is there ever a point in the game where you are in combat and don't know it?&nbsp; Can you ever have hidden combats?So why hide skill challenges?&nbsp; After all, the player is going to know that he's in a skill challenge as soon as he rolls and doesn't achieve his goal with a single roll.&nbsp; So, again, why hide it in the first place? Player: &quot;I try to find the glade, I contact nature spirits using Arcana to tell me where the glade is.&quot;DM:&nbsp; Ok, you contacted the spirits, but, their directions are vague, you think you're getting closer.Player:&nbsp; Ahh, ok, skill challenge time is it?In a combat situation, you know that you're in combat as soon as initiative is rolled, and, usually, after the first round, you probably have a decent idea how easy or difficult this combat is going to be.&nbsp; At least in general terms, although there can always be surprises of course.What does it add to the game to hide the fact that you're in a skill challenge?&nbsp; The players are going to figure it out pretty much instantly anyway, and if they don't, they're going to be frustrated because they are not getting the results they expect from their skills.Making sure the players are invested in the scenario is just basic DMing advice.&nbsp; Of course it's true.&nbsp; But, just because I want to find the princess won't automatically make me care about your skill challenge.&nbsp; Instead, I'm likely to be frustrated because now I have to play Mother May I with the DM.&nbsp; Am I in a skill challenge or not?&nbsp; If I make this check, will it get the results I expect?&nbsp; What would be the best choices for me to make?Like I said, it's not about just going straight mechanical.&nbsp; That's boring.&nbsp; &quot;Hey guys, skill challenge time, X successes needed, start rolling&quot; would suck.&nbsp; But, &quot;Hey guys, you are trying to do X, what do you do?&nbsp; Ok, that gets you a little way there.&nbsp; Ok, little more, ok little more...&quot; sucks as well.I trust my players more than enough to know that they can take the mechanical aspects and weave them into the ongoing narrative without me trying to hide it from them to somehow magically make them start &quot;roleplaying&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5386931, member: 22779"] "Roll for initiative" is pretty close to "this is combat." Or, put it another way, is there ever a point in the game where you are in combat and [i]don't[/i] know it? Can you ever have hidden combats? So why hide skill challenges? After all, the player is going to know that he's in a skill challenge as soon as he rolls and doesn't achieve his goal with a single roll. So, again, why hide it in the first place? Player: "I try to find the glade, I contact nature spirits using Arcana to tell me where the glade is." DM: Ok, you contacted the spirits, but, their directions are vague, you think you're getting closer. Player: Ahh, ok, skill challenge time is it? In a combat situation, you know that you're in combat as soon as initiative is rolled, and, usually, after the first round, you probably have a decent idea how easy or difficult this combat is going to be. At least in general terms, although there can always be surprises of course. What does it add to the game to hide the fact that you're in a skill challenge? The players are going to figure it out pretty much instantly anyway, and if they don't, they're going to be frustrated because they are not getting the results they expect from their skills. Making sure the players are invested in the scenario is just basic DMing advice. Of course it's true. But, just because I want to find the princess won't automatically make me care about your skill challenge. Instead, I'm likely to be frustrated because now I have to play Mother May I with the DM. Am I in a skill challenge or not? If I make this check, will it get the results I expect? What would be the best choices for me to make? Like I said, it's not about just going straight mechanical. That's boring. "Hey guys, skill challenge time, X successes needed, start rolling" would suck. But, "Hey guys, you are trying to do X, what do you do? Ok, that gets you a little way there. Ok, little more, ok little more..." sucks as well. I trust my players more than enough to know that they can take the mechanical aspects and weave them into the ongoing narrative without me trying to hide it from them to somehow magically make them start "roleplaying". [/QUOTE]

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