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Message: <blockquote data-quote="surfarcher" data-source="post: 5388650" data-attributes="member: 84774">Then you are limiting your experience of skill challenges and limiting their usefullness.It is definately a Skill Challenge by RAW, as defined within DMG2.  Have you read that chapter?  I really get the feeling you haven't, in which case you really should.It's an SC because there have to be a ceratin number of successes before a certain number of failures, Advantages aside.  It's an extension of natural play, as it should be.  With this kind of "long term" SC I don't define scenarios or obstacles ahead of time.  I adlib based on what my players do or say.In my example the party will cross teh crevasse.  They now have two successes.  Consider:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They succeed brilliantly and the next X checks - they get to the shrine  early and watch the light from the full moon creep across the keystone  and actually see the door swing open.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They succeed, but only by a small margin - they get to the shrine as it's closing and just manage to get inside before the door shuts.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">They accumulate three failure - they'll probably reach the shrine just in time to see it closed.</li> </ul>This is what I meant when I said "the mechanic is really just an accounting tool, a way to measure progress, success and failure".I don't see how good DMing and roleplaying couldn't have solved this situation just as effectively and entertainingly.FWIW when I design and implement short-term SCs like this I just pay more attention to detail and map out key problems that need to be addressed.  Addressing each successfully is... You guessed it, a success.In this case I see three factors to address (a) ceiling, (b) portcullis and (c) enemies.  As long as the party addresses those three key problems you can succeed at the challenge.  That could easily be a complexity 1 or 2 challenge, likely something like this...<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ceiling - up to 2 successes.  Theivery, dungeoneering or strength checks seem appropriate.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Portcullis - up to 2 successes. Theivery, strength check.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Keep the monsters at bay - probably up to 2 successes.  Could be tactics or combat.</li> </ul>The players would come up with other things too, which is the beauty of it.  I'd play this loose and very adlibby.To be honest, I fail to see why you would think a single skill check could solve a complex situation like that!  To me it would be obvious that's a combined combat/SC and if my players asked me that I'd say "yes".  Additionally if they were struggling with the situation or not "getting" it I'd certainly drop clues and maybe even come straight out and tell them if they just didn't get it.  With my group I doubt I'd need to, but you never know.I guess overall I just don't beleve if this was all really happening some voice form the sky would tell the PCs "this is a skill challenge".  And in my experience it's not necessary to do so.</blockquote>

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