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<blockquote data-quote="surfarcher" data-source="post: 5388661" data-attributes="member: 84774">They aren't disconnected.&nbsp; They are entwined.It's kind of the point!&nbsp; A SC isn't a group check.&nbsp; That's something different and maybe you are mixing those mechanics up a bit?The kicker is this - that kind of skill challenge gets stale really fast.&nbsp; And a LOT of folks hate them.&nbsp; Just read all the bad stuff said about SCs everywhere over the internet.&nbsp; Most of those ultra-short-term SCs are better replaced by group skill checks OR reskinned so that the operate as intended but without having to be announced.&nbsp; The rest?&nbsp; To be honest I get rid of them.&nbsp; I've yet to see one that has a real impact on the story.But wait!&nbsp; There's another kicker!&nbsp; That's this - you can view it however you like, but RAW very strongly supports the kind of Challenges we are advocating.&nbsp; I've just scanned through DMG and DMG2 and I can't see anywhere where it says that SCs should be designed and played the way you paint them - as multiple checks to overcome an atomic problem.&nbsp; I can see where it suggests that's not the way to do it tho <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; And there is plenty of stuff in DMG2 that strongly suggests otherwise!Some quick notes form DMG2 p78-89:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> The example p80-81 specifically shows an SC being implemented in the way I describe.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> &quot;if standing in one place doing the same thing over and over again is the best plan, you need to go back to the drawing board&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> &quot;a variety of options makes for an interesting skill challenge&quot;</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> &quot;a skill challenge can cover hours or even days of progress&quot; p82-83 talks about long term SCs.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> &quot;Each skill check in a challenge should accomplish one of the following goals&quot; p83 talks about checks opening up new ways to success and SCs unfolding in the way I have shown.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> In-Combat Challenges p84</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Encounter Challenges p84</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Structure Challenges p84-85</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Allow Options Besides Skills p86</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> The stuff on Stages Of Failure and Stages Of Success p86-88</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Progressive Challenges p88-89</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Branching Challenges p89</li>
</ul>You might want to have a careful read.&nbsp; It's interesting, inspiring and useful stuff!Cheers!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="surfarcher, post: 5388661, member: 84774"] They aren't disconnected. They are entwined. It's kind of the point! A SC isn't a group check. That's something different and maybe you are mixing those mechanics up a bit? The kicker is this - that kind of skill challenge gets stale really fast. And a LOT of folks hate them. Just read all the bad stuff said about SCs everywhere over the internet. Most of those ultra-short-term SCs are better replaced by group skill checks [B]OR[/B] reskinned so that the operate as intended but without having to be announced. The rest? To be honest I get rid of them. I've yet to see one that has a real impact on the story. But wait! There's another kicker! That's this - you can view it however you like, but RAW very strongly supports the kind of Challenges we are advocating. I've just scanned through DMG and DMG2 and I can't see anywhere where it says that SCs should be designed and played the way you paint them - as multiple checks to overcome an atomic problem. I can see where it suggests that's [B]not[/B] the way to do it tho :) And there is [B]plenty[/B] of stuff in DMG2 that strongly suggests otherwise! Some quick notes form DMG2 p78-89: [LIST] [*] The example p80-81 specifically shows an SC being implemented in the way I describe. [*] "if standing in one place doing the same thing over and over again is the best plan, you need to go back to the drawing board" [*] "a variety of options makes for an interesting skill challenge" [*] "a skill challenge can cover hours or even days of progress" p82-83 talks about long term SCs. [*] "Each skill check in a challenge should accomplish one of the following goals" p83 talks about checks opening up new ways to success and SCs unfolding in the way I have shown. [*] In-Combat Challenges p84 [*] Encounter Challenges p84 [*] Structure Challenges p84-85 [*] Allow Options Besides Skills p86 [*] The stuff on Stages Of Failure and Stages Of Success p86-88 [*] Progressive Challenges p88-89 [*] Branching Challenges p89 [/LIST] You might want to have a careful read. It's interesting, inspiring and useful stuff! Cheers! [/QUOTE]

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