Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 5390232" data-attributes="member: 58197">Yeah, this is what I've seen whenever a 4E DM openly runs a skill challenge. It's why I don't do it--it was clear to me from the start that if you ran a skill challenge "transparently," and ran it by the book, this would be the result.My solution is to use the concept of a skill challenge as a framework for thinking about non-combat encounters, rather than a mechanic in itself. When I design a skill-based encounter, I first decide on the "measure of success"--what are the trigger conditions for "conclude with success" or "conclude with failure?" Then I look for skills that could be applicable, and decide how each skill can aid the party in moving the encounter toward a conclusion.Here's an example I planned for my last session. The party is making its way through a secret passage built by yuan-ti. They have a talisman of the yuan-ti snake goddess that tells the guardians it's okay to let them through, but the magic of the talisman is weak and failing.The final guardian is a hydra, in a large, multi-leveled room with narrow stairways, where statues of snake-maidens exhale clouds of corrosive, choking smoke at unpredictable intervals. The snake-maidens are positioned near the stairways. "Conclude with success" means all PCs reach the gate on the other side of the room safely. "Conclude with failure" means the hydra attacks.So, the relevant skills and how each can contribute:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Athletics: Climb a wall to the next level, allowing you to bypass a stairway.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Arcana/Dungeoneering: Predict which snake-maidens will breathe smoke next round.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Endurance: When caught in the poison smoke, keep climbing despite its debilitating effects.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Religion: Use the talisman to keep the hydra passive. If a round goes by in which no PC successfully makes this check, the hydra becomes unfriendly and starts making opportunity attacks. If a second round goes by in which no PC successfully makes this check, the hydra becomes hostile.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thievery: Disable one of the snake-maidens.</li> </ul>If PCs come up with other clever ideas, I might allow them to provide a benefit as well, probably at a higher DC than for the listed options. For instance, a tough Intimidate check might be enough to keep the hydra at bay after botching Religion.Now, is this a skill challenge? By the book, probably not; I'm not adding up successes and failures. But the basic principle of the skill challenge--define conditions for success, decide what skills can contribute and how--did help me plan out the encounter.Edited to add: I think one of the biggest failings of skill challenges as written, and one I haven't seen addressed in most of the fixes, is that skills are mechanically interchangeable. DCs may vary, but otherwise every skill check has the exact same effect as every other one. I think it's important that different skills have different mechanical--not just narrative--effects on the outcome of the challenge.</blockquote>

Verification