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Skill Challenges: Please stop
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<blockquote data-quote="Riastlin" data-source="post: 5464812" data-attributes="member: 94022"><p>@OP: I understand you dislike skill challenges, which is perfectly fine with me. However, my response would simply be "so don't use them in your game". Suggesting that nobody should use them is a bit silly in my mind.</p><p> </p><p>@<u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=12759" target="_blank">Kari</a></u>n'sDad: I may be mistaken in this, since I don't have my books in front me, but I believe it was only in DMG1 that they specifically stated every player had to participate in the SC. I believe that the subsequent updates have made it so that not everyone has to participate. In other words, sometimes the best thing that the dumb barbarian can do is to keep his mouth shut. I believe that the current rules recognize this, and even if they don't, as a DM I would certainly not require active participation in most (if not all) situations.</p><p> </p><p>As for Skill Challenges and skill checks in general, I do think they are a good thing <em>if done right</em>. Here's why I think in the roleplay-oriented social encounter there should be skill checks involved: I'm a lawyer in real life and am in the courtroom nearly every day. As a result, I am pretty good when it comes to public speaking and thinking on my feet. Now, if in my games where I am a player, the DM determines all social interactions purely on the <em>quality</em> of the roleplay (which is highly subjective btw), unless my character had a need for Cha for his attacks (say a Sorc, Warlock, Pally or Bard, etc.) then there would be absolutely no need for me to boost Cha or to train Diplomacy/Bluff/etc. After all, I'm pretty good when it comes to speaking because I have to do it every day. What's more, I can now take those resources that I might have used for Diplomacy, Cha, etc. and instead invest them in other attributes and skills. Finally, the other members of my party can do the same since they know that a) it won't help them anyway (sure they might roll a nat 20 on diplomacy but if they can't verbalize it they still fail under the subjective system) and b) I already have the social "skills" covered. As a result, we as a group, are now going to be a lot better at the other skills since we have that many more resources to invest in them. To me, I would say that this system is far more munchkiny than using actual skill checks would be. The party of 8 Cha orcs is suddenly the equivalent of world class shakespearian actors because we are subjectively good at roleplaying in real life.</p><p> </p><p>Now, all of this being said, I think the biggest problem with most skill challenges is that we (as DMs) try to force skill challenges onto situations that are really just a simple skill check or two. If, for instance, there are only two skills associated with a skill challenge, it really shouldn't be a skill challenge. Just make a couple of skill checks and move on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Riastlin, post: 5464812, member: 94022"] @OP: I understand you dislike skill challenges, which is perfectly fine with me. However, my response would simply be "so don't use them in your game". Suggesting that nobody should use them is a bit silly in my mind. @[U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=12759"]Kari[/URL][/U]n'sDad: I may be mistaken in this, since I don't have my books in front me, but I believe it was only in DMG1 that they specifically stated every player had to participate in the SC. I believe that the subsequent updates have made it so that not everyone has to participate. In other words, sometimes the best thing that the dumb barbarian can do is to keep his mouth shut. I believe that the current rules recognize this, and even if they don't, as a DM I would certainly not require active participation in most (if not all) situations. As for Skill Challenges and skill checks in general, I do think they are a good thing [I]if done right[/I]. Here's why I think in the roleplay-oriented social encounter there should be skill checks involved: I'm a lawyer in real life and am in the courtroom nearly every day. As a result, I am pretty good when it comes to public speaking and thinking on my feet. Now, if in my games where I am a player, the DM determines all social interactions purely on the [I]quality[/I] of the roleplay (which is highly subjective btw), unless my character had a need for Cha for his attacks (say a Sorc, Warlock, Pally or Bard, etc.) then there would be absolutely no need for me to boost Cha or to train Diplomacy/Bluff/etc. After all, I'm pretty good when it comes to speaking because I have to do it every day. What's more, I can now take those resources that I might have used for Diplomacy, Cha, etc. and instead invest them in other attributes and skills. Finally, the other members of my party can do the same since they know that a) it won't help them anyway (sure they might roll a nat 20 on diplomacy but if they can't verbalize it they still fail under the subjective system) and b) I already have the social "skills" covered. As a result, we as a group, are now going to be a lot better at the other skills since we have that many more resources to invest in them. To me, I would say that this system is far more munchkiny than using actual skill checks would be. The party of 8 Cha orcs is suddenly the equivalent of world class shakespearian actors because we are subjectively good at roleplaying in real life. Now, all of this being said, I think the biggest problem with most skill challenges is that we (as DMs) try to force skill challenges onto situations that are really just a simple skill check or two. If, for instance, there are only two skills associated with a skill challenge, it really shouldn't be a skill challenge. Just make a couple of skill checks and move on. [/QUOTE]
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