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Skill Challenges: Please stop
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<blockquote data-quote="Mengu" data-source="post: 5465219" data-attributes="member: 65726"><p>For the record, the 8 charisma shaman's player thoroughly enjoys playing the low charisma. Whatever talking he does, he makes sure to have an abrasive tone about it, so when he fails the check I have an easy time disputing his argument, and hopefully someone with better charisma will jump in and offer further input to salvage the situation. I find this to be "fun" as DM.</p><p></p><p>I've had my 8 wisdom warlord ask for untrained insight checks even though I know I'm terrible at them, just because I like giving the DM a tool to mess with me should I roll dismally low, or occasionally gain some benefit with a lucky roll.</p><p></p><p>I realize it's not all black and white, and you don't want to punish players for being involved in the game, you want to reward them, but it's also the player's responsibility to play to their strengths and weaknesses. I play a half-orc barbarian with high charisma, low int, and he walks around with a big dumb grin on his face all the time, acts friendly and a bit naive, which gains points for simply being likable and honest, even if what he had to say was the dumbest idea. I tend to make a lot of diplomacy assist rolls to help the bard, often providing terrible ideas that basically make the bard's idea shine. While one could do the same thing with a sarcastic rogue or a devious warlock, the naive barbarian works just as well. And if I fail an assist check, the DM/NPC can look at the bard and say "the company you keep is not exactly inspiring." And my barbarian will just smile like he got a pat on the head, while providing the bard with a -1 penalty.</p><p></p><p>Making dice rolls, or even failing at them, doesn't necessarily mean people aren't involved or invested with their actions, or that they aren't enjoying their actions. Yes this will be the case for some newer players, or in awkward situations where occasionally the DM can't quite portray the encounter well, or the players don't understand it. And in those cases, something has to keep the game going, so roll some dice, call it a day, move onto the next fun thing.</p><p></p><p>One other thing to keep in mind is, dice don't tell you what to say. Everyone knows that guy, who rolls a diplomacy check, natural 20, turns to the DM and says "I rolled a 20 on my diplomacy, I ask the ambassador, the exact right questions for him to tell me everything." And I hate that guy as much as every other DM.</p><p></p><p>Skill checks and skill challenges are simply a resolution method, much like every other mechanic in D&D, removing part of the responsibility of being a bad guy from the DM's shoulders, and placing it on a bit of luck, and a bit of savvy party building and cooperation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mengu, post: 5465219, member: 65726"] For the record, the 8 charisma shaman's player thoroughly enjoys playing the low charisma. Whatever talking he does, he makes sure to have an abrasive tone about it, so when he fails the check I have an easy time disputing his argument, and hopefully someone with better charisma will jump in and offer further input to salvage the situation. I find this to be "fun" as DM. I've had my 8 wisdom warlord ask for untrained insight checks even though I know I'm terrible at them, just because I like giving the DM a tool to mess with me should I roll dismally low, or occasionally gain some benefit with a lucky roll. I realize it's not all black and white, and you don't want to punish players for being involved in the game, you want to reward them, but it's also the player's responsibility to play to their strengths and weaknesses. I play a half-orc barbarian with high charisma, low int, and he walks around with a big dumb grin on his face all the time, acts friendly and a bit naive, which gains points for simply being likable and honest, even if what he had to say was the dumbest idea. I tend to make a lot of diplomacy assist rolls to help the bard, often providing terrible ideas that basically make the bard's idea shine. While one could do the same thing with a sarcastic rogue or a devious warlock, the naive barbarian works just as well. And if I fail an assist check, the DM/NPC can look at the bard and say "the company you keep is not exactly inspiring." And my barbarian will just smile like he got a pat on the head, while providing the bard with a -1 penalty. Making dice rolls, or even failing at them, doesn't necessarily mean people aren't involved or invested with their actions, or that they aren't enjoying their actions. Yes this will be the case for some newer players, or in awkward situations where occasionally the DM can't quite portray the encounter well, or the players don't understand it. And in those cases, something has to keep the game going, so roll some dice, call it a day, move onto the next fun thing. One other thing to keep in mind is, dice don't tell you what to say. Everyone knows that guy, who rolls a diplomacy check, natural 20, turns to the DM and says "I rolled a 20 on my diplomacy, I ask the ambassador, the exact right questions for him to tell me everything." And I hate that guy as much as every other DM. Skill checks and skill challenges are simply a resolution method, much like every other mechanic in D&D, removing part of the responsibility of being a bad guy from the DM's shoulders, and placing it on a bit of luck, and a bit of savvy party building and cooperation. [/QUOTE]
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