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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primal" data-source="post: 5467666" data-attributes="member: 30678">It's true that not all of us are as eloquent as others; however, there are plenty of published articles that emphasize the fact that roleplaying helps develop social skills. I should know, because I used to be VERY shy before I discovered roleplaying. What shy players need is an understanding group with a good DM, who encourages them to roleplay. If you'll always let them roll instead of roleplaying -- just because they might feel uncomfortable with speaking up in character -- they'll never get a chance improve on their social skills. And if you ask me, it's not wise to give them high CHA characters to play until they feel confortable with the concept. Also, I feel I must point out that while naturally social players may find CHA 18 paladins easier to roleplay, I'm gonna slap heavy penalties if their CHA 8 half-orc barbarians or dwarven fighters speak just as eloquently.Anyway, in my opinion skill challenges, as written, do not encourage roleplaying, unless the DM understands how conflict resolution works in indie RPGs (such as Dogs in the Vineyard). They are presented in a very complex format, i.e. they're time-consuming to design and write down (which skills are primary, which skills lead to automatic failure, which penalties there are for failure, etc.). Considering that the intention behind skill challenges most likely was that you could improvise them on the fly, it's surprising how painful it's to draft up one. Now, I'm aware that WoTC has published tips and instructions in DMG 2 and Dragon articles on applying and  designing skill challenges, but since I haven't read them, I can't comment on how helpful and informative those are. Regardless, I think skill challenges shouldn't be run as static encounters; instead, they should feel as organic as the rest of the game, and merge naturally with the story. First of all, don't tell your players they're involved in a skill challenge; I've seen many posters complain (over here and other forums) that skill challenges feel artificial and forced because players may start metagaming and thinking OOC about who should use which skills. Don't present your players with a list of options, or ask them what they want to do to contribute to successes. Let them decide. Secondly, divorce skill challenges both from the time constraints and the mechanical framework. Describe the scene and let the players decide how their characters respond; treat each roll as if it were a "normal" skill or ability check, and decide on the fly whether each skill is appropriate or not, and if it's a primary or secondary skill. A good rule of thumb would be to ask yourself: "Can the player justify the use of this skill?" and "Does this contribute to the story in a positive way?". A good example of the latter would be the skill challenge I read about (I think it was in one of the LFR modules?) inwhich the PCs had to flee the city, and someone's PC escaped via sewers; at my table this would lead to improvised encounters,if not even further adventures (e.g. the PC might find a mysterious door leading to a small dungeon complex or hideout).  To give a concrete (and off the top of my head) example let's pretend the PCs want to find NPC X. Now, the DM might start by telling the players they need to roll History or Streetwise. If that fails, the DM might say that PCs could ask around using Diplomacy, or even describe a scene involving obviously shady characters that the PCs recognise as X's underlings; they could be followed or tricked into (Stealth or Bluff) revealing X's location. Or, perhaps one of the players suggests that his PC wants to try Acrobatics and Stealth to climb on top of a building to eavesdrop on these minions, gaining a third success with a Perception check. Or maybe the PCs just want to fight the minions, and beat the information out of them (gaining one or two successes, or perhaps hints that lead to further skill checks with other NPCs?). In the end, this process (the skill challenge) might take days or even weeks to accomplish, and there might be several combat encounters hindering or benefiting it.A good DM knows how to shuffle things around on the fly, and reacts to the situation at hand. Maybe an Arcana check feels a bit cheap -- or even outright "wrong" -- for the task, but then again, couldn't it be possible to magically "sniff out" the rituals NPC X has been using in the city? Perhaps this leads the PCs to a dusty cellar of an abandoned building, with a bound demon guarding the ritual site? Maybe there could be more clues right there? And so on.  As for the price of failure, throwing combat encounters at players for failing a skill challenge may be a bad idea. I know a lot of combat-oriented players who see this as a reward, especially if you give them treasure as usual. IMO a penalty for failure should always be something the player's don't like; personally I think losing healing surges or having in-story consequences (good examples have already been given by other posters on this thread) is a better way to underline that failure has a price, and maybe engage the players even further in the story.</blockquote>

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