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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5471239" data-attributes="member: 42582">Agreed. There's a point I want to make too, which is different from what you've said but adds to it and doesn't (as far as I can tell) really contradict it.In the example I gave upthread, I gave examples of what &quot;exhausted means&quot; - in one case, failure to get an extended rest; in another case, being so tired that the attacking monsters get the benefits of surprise. I also use healing surge attrition as a fairly standard consequence for failed skill checks, both in and out of skill challenges.I just wanted to add - sometimes, even if success is guaranteed, the skill challenge can still have consequences - particularly narrative consequences - as a result of the way that it unfolds.Suppose, for example, a social skill challenge in which success is guaranteed, but only because one of the PCs is prepared to go all out and intimidate the NPC in question. Running the skill challenge isn't a waste of time, because (i) it forces the player of the PC in question to confront the question - &quot;Do I want my PC to be this sort of person?&quot; - and (ii) because the narrative consequences of the intimidation might be important and/or interesting in themselves - at a minimum, they might affect the reputation of the PC.I agree with you. And I don't think they make my point very well, either, namely that the stuff that happens in the course of resolving the challenge can sometimes be just as important as the result at the end.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5471239, member: 42582"] Agreed. There's a point I want to make too, which is different from what you've said but adds to it and doesn't (as far as I can tell) really contradict it. In the example I gave upthread, I gave examples of what "exhausted means" - in one case, failure to get an extended rest; in another case, being so tired that the attacking monsters get the benefits of surprise. I also use healing surge attrition as a fairly standard consequence for failed skill checks, both in and out of skill challenges. I just wanted to add - sometimes, even if success is guaranteed, the skill challenge can still have consequences - particularly narrative consequences - as a result of the way that it unfolds. Suppose, for example, a social skill challenge in which success is guaranteed, but [I]only because[/I] one of the PCs is prepared to go all out and intimidate the NPC in question. Running the skill challenge isn't a waste of time, because (i) it forces the player of the PC in question to confront the question - "Do I want my PC to be this sort of person?" - and (ii) because the narrative consequences of the intimidation might be important and/or interesting in themselves - at a minimum, they might affect the reputation of the PC. I agree with you. And I don't think they make my point very well, either, namely that [I]the stuff that happens in the course of resolving the challenge[/I] can sometimes be just as important as the result at the end. [/QUOTE]

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