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Skill Challenges: Please stop
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<blockquote data-quote="surfarcher" data-source="post: 5474505" data-attributes="member: 84774"><p>Hang on, here's how I saw it...</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I gave an example of how I ran a very small "SC" as a result of party actions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You said I overdid it and would have called things off as soon as 2 PCs got to the top of the cliff. That I was throwing in extra rolls and making them play through a mechanic they didn't want to play through. That it's like forcing a fight to finish even tho there's only 3 mionions on the board.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I responded that it's what the group was intent on doing and they were being enthusiastic about that. I tried to make the point that "cutting it short" here would, effecively, be railroading.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><strong><span style="color: SeaGreen">In retrospect I seem to have offended you at this point by asking a rhetorical question. That wasn't my intent and I unconditionally apologise for the inadvertant offense.</span></strong></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You continued to indicate that I was forcing rolls on the players and invoked "railroading".</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I was mildly miffed at your response to my last post and it showed. <strong><span style="color: SeaGreen">Apologies again.</span></strong></li> </ul><p>I guess you can't identify there but I can live with that. Let's just put it behind us.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you see SCs as very hard and visible structures. As a simple tracking and accounting mechanic it can be very powerful for adlibbing and building the story on the fly.</p><p></p><p>You didn't like the way I made one or two rolls. Fine. Pretend they didn't happen. Go onto the skills, actions and whateverthat the PCs used. It's no big thing.</p><p></p><p>It's a tool. There was a dialog. We had fun. The PCs enjoyed it. At least I assume they enjoyed it based on the comments afterwards... Continuing comments. It was out of the box. The way I used the mechanic was a massive factor in stremlining and directing all of that.</p><p></p><p>Maybe we just need to agree to disagree on that one.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Overall the player's objective was to get behind expected enemies and surprise them. They employed certain things including skills but also other actions, such as the creative use of powers and out-of-the-box thinking, to achieve their successes.</p><p></p><p>TBH I don't know why you are so hooked up on the "skills" aspect. It's only on way to count a success or failure.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe. Maybe they could have been discarded. There was a stealth check and other actions after that that I could have used instead. Criticise my implementation if you like. </p><p></p><p>To be honest it really just seems you just aren't interested in the point I'm trying to make. That you want to be heard to the exclusion of any alternative.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That might be true if I was driving it. But I wasn't. They were.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure. And there are times when you are in the middle of the adventure. Like when you are past the initial encounters in an outdoor adventure. And you decide to climb a cliff to surprise the next bad guys.</p><p></p><p>But you are obviously right. When they got to the top of the cliff and asked "What do we see?!? Is there a path leading that way?!?" </p><p></p><p>I should have said "Oh forget about that of course there's a path. You get around behind them and have surprise. Combat on!"</p><p></p><p>Obviously answerring "There's a ledge leading in that direction. What do you guys want to do?" was a horrible, terrible railroading thing to do.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with you there.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree with you here too.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As I said you can criticise my implementation all you like. It's unfortunate that you don't care to listen to what I am trying to say and instead picking at details. Some people are like that tho.</p><p></p><p> </p><p>Anyone who has done that hasn't read DMG2. Honestly. It's terrible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A lot of good stuff in there. But I honestly think you've missed the boat in using the mechanic as a tracking mechanic.</p><p></p><p>Keep using your big SCs in the way you've described. You have a good handle on that aspect. When your mind is open to being more flexible to using the mechanic as a tracking and accounting tool that is a great help with adlibbing I'm here waiting to talk to you about it.</p><p></p><p>I'll be switch to lurk mode on this one soon folks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="surfarcher, post: 5474505, member: 84774"] Hang on, here's how I saw it... [LIST] [*]I gave an example of how I ran a very small "SC" as a result of party actions. [*]You said I overdid it and would have called things off as soon as 2 PCs got to the top of the cliff. That I was throwing in extra rolls and making them play through a mechanic they didn't want to play through. That it's like forcing a fight to finish even tho there's only 3 mionions on the board. [*]I responded that it's what the group was intent on doing and they were being enthusiastic about that. I tried to make the point that "cutting it short" here would, effecively, be railroading. [*][B][COLOR=SeaGreen]In retrospect I seem to have offended you at this point by asking a rhetorical question. That wasn't my intent and I unconditionally apologise for the inadvertant offense.[/COLOR][/B] [*]You continued to indicate that I was forcing rolls on the players and invoked "railroading". [*]I was mildly miffed at your response to my last post and it showed. [B][COLOR=SeaGreen]Apologies again.[/COLOR][/B] [/LIST] I guess you can't identify there but I can live with that. Let's just put it behind us. I think you see SCs as very hard and visible structures. As a simple tracking and accounting mechanic it can be very powerful for adlibbing and building the story on the fly. You didn't like the way I made one or two rolls. Fine. Pretend they didn't happen. Go onto the skills, actions and whateverthat the PCs used. It's no big thing. It's a tool. There was a dialog. We had fun. The PCs enjoyed it. At least I assume they enjoyed it based on the comments afterwards... Continuing comments. It was out of the box. The way I used the mechanic was a massive factor in stremlining and directing all of that. Maybe we just need to agree to disagree on that one. Overall the player's objective was to get behind expected enemies and surprise them. They employed certain things including skills but also other actions, such as the creative use of powers and out-of-the-box thinking, to achieve their successes. TBH I don't know why you are so hooked up on the "skills" aspect. It's only on way to count a success or failure. Maybe. Maybe they could have been discarded. There was a stealth check and other actions after that that I could have used instead. Criticise my implementation if you like. To be honest it really just seems you just aren't interested in the point I'm trying to make. That you want to be heard to the exclusion of any alternative. That might be true if I was driving it. But I wasn't. They were. Sure. And there are times when you are in the middle of the adventure. Like when you are past the initial encounters in an outdoor adventure. And you decide to climb a cliff to surprise the next bad guys. But you are obviously right. When they got to the top of the cliff and asked "What do we see?!? Is there a path leading that way?!?" I should have said "Oh forget about that of course there's a path. You get around behind them and have surprise. Combat on!" Obviously answerring "There's a ledge leading in that direction. What do you guys want to do?" was a horrible, terrible railroading thing to do. I agree with you there. I agree with you here too. As I said you can criticise my implementation all you like. It's unfortunate that you don't care to listen to what I am trying to say and instead picking at details. Some people are like that tho. Anyone who has done that hasn't read DMG2. Honestly. It's terrible. A lot of good stuff in there. But I honestly think you've missed the boat in using the mechanic as a tracking mechanic. Keep using your big SCs in the way you've described. You have a good handle on that aspect. When your mind is open to being more flexible to using the mechanic as a tracking and accounting tool that is a great help with adlibbing I'm here waiting to talk to you about it. I'll be switch to lurk mode on this one soon folks. [/QUOTE]
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