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Skill Challenges: Please stop
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<blockquote data-quote="Fox Lee" data-source="post: 5477412" data-attributes="member: 4346"><p>That's more what I'm getting at; the point of the example was that using brute strength was the goal of the exercise <em>as well as</em> the means to move a tree. Though, it's worth noting that if somebody makes a big strong barbarian, it may be because they <em>want</em> to be able to approach strength-related problems in a very physical manner, which is neither bad nor wrong per se.</p><p></p><p>I guess my basic point is that creativity is extremely valuable, but characters built under a system like 4e act in a mechanically reliable fashion, and this is often important to the players. I would go so far as to say that if the rules become <em>un</em>reliable, it can hurt roleplay and especially enthusiasm; if you feel like the rules (or the way the GM is using them) are undermining your character, it can really bring down your desire to interact with the game world or play that character in an interesting fashion.</p><p></p><p>That's not to say that characters should always succeed, of course, but they should generally understand their odds. If I make a character who's supposed to be an unshakeable monolith, but I screw up building her and she's no good at resisting mes effects, my roleplaying her as a stoic badass is going to seem like false confidence at best - a very different character to what I wanted to play. Of course, in that case it would be my fault, but that same thing can also happen - quite easily - if the rules stop working the way the book says they work.</p><p></p><p><strong>TLDR:</strong> Creativity has value, but a predictable baseline is essential to this system.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ahh, <em>that</em> does change things considerably. Success in my mind is part of "reward", but if you meant it as a distinctly separate term, what you said seems much more reasonable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fox Lee, post: 5477412, member: 4346"] That's more what I'm getting at; the point of the example was that using brute strength was the goal of the exercise [i]as well as[/i] the means to move a tree. Though, it's worth noting that if somebody makes a big strong barbarian, it may be because they [i]want[/i] to be able to approach strength-related problems in a very physical manner, which is neither bad nor wrong per se. I guess my basic point is that creativity is extremely valuable, but characters built under a system like 4e act in a mechanically reliable fashion, and this is often important to the players. I would go so far as to say that if the rules become [i]un[/i]reliable, it can hurt roleplay and especially enthusiasm; if you feel like the rules (or the way the GM is using them) are undermining your character, it can really bring down your desire to interact with the game world or play that character in an interesting fashion. That's not to say that characters should always succeed, of course, but they should generally understand their odds. If I make a character who's supposed to be an unshakeable monolith, but I screw up building her and she's no good at resisting mes effects, my roleplaying her as a stoic badass is going to seem like false confidence at best - a very different character to what I wanted to play. Of course, in that case it would be my fault, but that same thing can also happen - quite easily - if the rules stop working the way the book says they work. [b]TLDR:[/b] Creativity has value, but a predictable baseline is essential to this system. Ahh, [i]that[/i] does change things considerably. Success in my mind is part of "reward", but if you meant it as a distinctly separate term, what you said seems much more reasonable. [/QUOTE]
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