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<blockquote data-quote="Bleoberis De Ganis" data-source="post: 4768270" data-attributes="member: 77687">I think just having an arbitrary number of successes and failures silly, a point you touched on in 6.&nbsp;If you have 4 successes required then each success should have a goal.&nbsp;Such as:&nbsp;Success Track.&nbsp;1) Get into the noble's court.2) Get an audience with the noble.3) Get on good terms with the noble.4) Convince the noble to send aid.&nbsp;Failure Track.&nbsp;1) Offend the noble.2) Display lack of ettiquettte.&nbsp;Something like that. Make it objective based for each step rather than just the whole challenge. Each step should be as general as possible and the PCs can accomplish that goal anyway they wish.&nbsp;This is a fairly poor example, but this principle needs exploring, as the main problem I see with skill challenges is the DM may as well just say to the PCs roll some skill checks until I say stop. I'll tell you if you won or lost.&nbsp;The main purpose of the skill challenge system is to break an action into a number of parts so that it cannot be succeeded or failed in a single action or die roll. It needs developing past its current base state. As long as you keep its main purpose in mind it should not be difficult.&nbsp;Several steps may be accomplished in a single action/roll or a single step may need several actions/rolls. The steps may not have to be accomplished in any particular order such as in the case of a trap.&nbsp;Success Track&nbsp;1. Block the nozzle.2. Jam something in the clockwork.3. Reset the pressure plate.4. Snap the wire.&nbsp;Fail Track&nbsp;1. Break nozzle.2. break pressure plate.&nbsp;Another poor example, but just of the top of my head.&nbsp;Or perhaps a lock.&nbsp;Success Track&nbsp;1. Set Pins2. Add right rotation tension&nbsp;etc.&nbsp;These are just off the top of my head, so they aren't great, but I'm just trying to illustrate my point. I just need to make the elements as general as humanly possible so as to allow imagination and diversity.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bleoberis De Ganis, post: 4768270, member: 77687"] I think just having an arbitrary number of successes and failures silly, a point you touched on in 6. If you have 4 successes required then each success should have a goal. Such as: Success Track. 1) Get into the noble's court. 2) Get an audience with the noble. 3) Get on good terms with the noble. 4) Convince the noble to send aid. Failure Track. 1) Offend the noble. 2) Display lack of ettiquettte. Something like that. Make it objective based for each step rather than just the whole challenge. Each step should be as general as possible and the PCs can accomplish that goal anyway they wish. This is a fairly poor example, but this principle needs exploring, as the main problem I see with skill challenges is the DM may as well just say to the PCs roll some skill checks until I say stop. I'll tell you if you won or lost. The main purpose of the skill challenge system is to break an action into a number of parts so that it cannot be succeeded or failed in a single action or die roll. It needs developing past its current base state. As long as you keep its main purpose in mind it should not be difficult. Several steps may be accomplished in a single action/roll or a single step may need several actions/rolls. The steps may not have to be accomplished in any particular order such as in the case of a trap. Success Track 1. Block the nozzle. 2. Jam something in the clockwork. 3. Reset the pressure plate. 4. Snap the wire. Fail Track 1. Break nozzle. 2. break pressure plate. Another poor example, but just of the top of my head. Or perhaps a lock. Success Track 1. Set Pins 2. Add right rotation tension etc. These are just off the top of my head, so they aren't great, but I'm just trying to illustrate my point. I just need to make the elements as general as humanly possible so as to allow imagination and diversity. [/QUOTE]

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