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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5274531" data-attributes="member: 82106">Well, 4e, certainly the DMG2 explicitly, definitely discusses the concept of levels of success. All elements of the SC system are open to reinterpretation by the DM in the context of a specific encounter. In fact in a lot of ways it is inaccurate to call it a 'system', it is more a set of guidelines than anything else.I can't really say much about your issues with the DCs except to say that the cases where I've run into people that are having problems with them always seem to have not fully understood the intent. The general objection is that the DCs are 'too easy', but this seems to arise from an expectation that a level +0 SC should be anything BUT easy. Yet a combat encounter of equal level is generally considered fairly trivial. Usually what you find is these people expect a level +0 complexity 1 challenge to be anything but utterly trivial. That would be like expecting a single level 1 goblin to challenge a level 1 party. Maybe your issues are different from these, but you might consider the official DCs in this light.I find the SC system to be pretty competent overall. Whenever the characters face some sort of situation that isn't involving combat and does utilize skills I'm always thinking of it in reference to the SC system. Usually it falls out as a pretty straightforward SC, though often with different possible levels of success. There are any number of possible pitfalls with SCs, but they also work pretty well in most cases.I think the main key is not to consider an SC to be some kind of isolated situation. Especially in the social context it is just an interaction with some NPCs. I'm not going to say to the players "now you're in an SC, so go ahead and try to game your skill checks to max your chance of passing it." The players will rarely in these situations KNOW that they're in an SC. Obviously in other contexts it may be more apparent, but the thing to do I think is frame the SC in terms of goals, rewards, resources, and opposition. Don't think about it in terms of specific activities. The challenge should revolve around achieving goals, attaining rewards, spending resources, and overcoming opposition/obstacles. So for instance dealing with a trap during a combat skill challenge revolves around DEALING with the trap. HOW is up to the players. Whatever way they choose is still part of the SC. If they decide to smash the trap, well, that is one approach, but it will require actions and may have consequences and may give different rewards than having the rogue disarm it. I think it would be great to have a book dedicated to knowledge about SCs and different approaches to them. DMG2 did some of that, but there is still some valuable ground that could be covered there. I think a good dissection of various SCs with a view towards analyzing their strengths and weaknesses would be good. Some of Mike Mearls articles got into that in various ways, but I think there is still a good bit of ground that could be covered. It might even be a good idea to provide some possible alternative mechanics for specific types of situations.</blockquote>

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