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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6061615" data-attributes="member: 42582">Perhaps with the odd build and the odd NPC. But not in general.A first level fighter in Moldvay Basic, for example, cannot kill an 18 hp ogre in a single blow of his/her two-handed sword (max damage 13 hp). A first level fighter in 4e cannot kill a 30 hp humanoid in a single charge (max damage 12 for the crit +5 for 20STR +1 for expertise +2 for whatever miscellany I'm not taking account of gets you to about 20 or so). The cleverness of the charge, or the player's narration, doesn't change this. The GM, rather, is expected to narrate what occurs around the mechanics, with an assumed "I try" out the front of the player's description of the foe's decapitation.Similarly in a skill challenge. When the player explains what his/her PC is doing, and how it will brilliantly accomplish all that needs to be accomplished to resolve the situation, the GM's job is to narrate the consequences and ensuing complications in a fashion that (i) reflects the result of the skill check as framed, and (ii) reflects the location of the success/failure within the overall challenge, and hence either keeps the scene alive, or closes it, as required.What some people call "narrative filler" others call playing the game. I've never heard Vault of the Drow described as "narrative filler until Lolth is killed"! Of course, if your narrative (or, if you're playing, that of your GM) is boring and creates no room for meaningful player choices, then my commiserations. Those of us who are using skill challenges successfully have mastered the arts of avoiding boring narrative and avoiding railroading.Another issue here, that is hard to address in the absence of concrete examples, is the relationship between scene-framing and action resolution. If the "brilliant plan" is one which kills off the scene as framed, then of course the challenge doesn't continue. If the challenge, for example, is negotiating with the Duke, and in the course of the challenge a PC activates his/her Horn of Invoked Devastation (or whatever) then obviously the negotiation does not continue. The scene has been peremptorily reframed.You said upthread that skill challenges "have a DM create a limited and artificial construct". I take it that you are accepting my drawing of a comparison between skill challenges and extended contest mechanics in other systems, and are now saying the same thing is true of HeroWars/Quest.I hope you can appreciate that (as you yourself put it) others' mileage might vary - of the various criticisims I've read of HeroWars/Quest, "limited", "artificial" and "boring" are not that common. Presumably you are aware that many people regard it as a hugely innovative and powerful system. And therefore, I would hope, are able to see why some people might regard skill challenges as comparably effective as a mechanic (obviously not as innovative, being highly derivative, and also having maths issues that arise from the extreme scaling of the 4e maths, but equally having some nice features that not all extended contest systems have).</blockquote>

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