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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2681273" data-attributes="member: 2011">If you say so. But you are focusing merely on one note out of the several I posted. Why is that? Could it be that the other notes point out sharper differences?Personally, I think a BAB + Str + Size modifier opposed roll is different than an opposed Str roll is different than an opposed attack roll is different than an opposed Str vs. Str or Dex. For people not familiar with the game, these are all different and about the only similar things in the Special Attacks. You have to roll a D20. Yes, but is it an opposed ability roll or an opposed attack roll? I don't remember.I think that some of them touch you (like Bull Rush), but do not require a touch attack nor do they allow you to use your Dex to avoid is a different mechanic than ones that do.I think if the order in which events occur is different, then they are different. It means that a DM either has to remember the difference, or he has to look it up.I think that if there are special rules for melee weapons versus non-melee weapons and that each Special Attack has it's own different rules for these, then they are different.Now, I posted the different things you need to do and the order for just a few of the Special Attacks.The fact that you cannot conceed that they do indeed have different orders, different things which happen on AoOs and touch attacks, and entire series of different rules means that you are ignoring the evidence. Grapple alone has almost 2 entire pages of rules.Almost two pages for one attack.That clearly indicates that the rules for Grapple are very different than the rules for any of the other Special Attacks.Otherwise, they would have merely needed a few sentences.But according to you, Grapple is handled virtually identical to Bull Rush. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> Well, attacking someone is the last resort of a losing position. You did that a lot in this thread. That appears to be your modus operandi.Sorry you lost. Better luck next time. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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