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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 4303473" data-attributes="member: 3424">In my view, one of the key factors that contributes to the apparently low success rate for the skill challenge system in the DMG is that skill checks are either successes or failures. As a result, for a character with a low skill modifier, it is usually a bad idea to attempt a skill check (instead of using Aid Another), as he is more likely to hurt the party than to help.While some might consider this a feature as it encourages co-operation within the party, I feel that it effectively takes an option away from the players by making it significantly sub-optimal compared to the others. If combat ran like the skill challenge system, missing an opponent would deal damage to everyone in the party. I don't think many people would enjoy combat encounters if that was the case. So, in developing a new skill encounter system, I looked to the combat system for inspiration. What basically happens in combat is that the PCs and their opponents take turns to attack each other. On the PCs' actions, a successful attack roll allows them to progress, either by reducing their opponents' hit points, or hindering them in some way. A failure usually does not result in direct penalties beyond the lack of progress, but it indirectly hurts the party by allowing the opponents to take more actions against them, and too many failures could mean that the opponents defeat the party before the party defeats them. This is the basic principle behind the skill complications system.Skill Complications: The Basics[SBLOCK]A skill complication is the basic component of a skill encounter. It represents some factor that is actively (though not necessarily consciously) working against the PCs' efforts, and which could plausibly cause them to fail. A standard skill complication is modeled after an elite monster, and overcoming one earns the PCs the same amount of experience.Running a Skill Complication[SBLOCK]There are basically two steps to running a skill complication. The first step is the progress phase in which the PCs take turns to make skill checks to resolve the skill complication. In this phase, a successful check results in a success. The second step is the complications phase, during which the PCs may accumulate failures if they do not succeed at their skill checks. Not all the PCs will be required to make skill checks during the complications phase. For a standard skill complication, each of the PCs may make a skill check during the progress phase, while only two PCs need to make skill checks during the complications phase. Once the complications phase is over, the PCs return to the progress phase. This continues until the PCs overcome the complication by achieving the required number of successes, or fail it by accumulating too many failures. For a standard complication, the PCs must gain eight successes before they accumulate eight failures.[/SBLOCK][/SBLOCK]Skill Complications: Detailed Rules[SBLOCK]This section presents detailed rules for running a skill complication, using the Negotiation scenario as a base example. However, in addition to the need to actually persuade (say) the Duke (represented by skill checks in the progress phase), the PCs also have to maintain the Duke’s interest in continued negotiations while countering arguments from his advisor (represented by skill checks in the complications phase). Skill Check DCs[SBLOCK]The skill checks in skill complications normally use Moderate DCs. Moderate DCs are 16 + 1/2 level in the Heroic tier, 17 + 1/2 level in the Paragon tier, and 18 + 1/2 level in the Epic tier. The one point increase in the base DC at each tier takes into account the possibility that a character may allocate some, but not all, of his ability score increases to the score relevant to his trained skill.Some skill checks, such as checks to Aid Another, may use Easy DCs. This is a flat 12 + 1/2 level across all tiers so that an untrained character who only allocates his compulsory ability score increases to the score relevant to the skill still has a reasonable chance of success.Some skill checks may be at Hard DCs, or the player may elect to attempt a Hard DC skill check in order to gain an additional advantage. Hard DCs are 20 + 1/2 level in the Heroic tier, 22 + 1/2 level in the Paragon tier, and 24 + 1/2 level in the Epic tier. The two point increase in the base DC at each tier is to reward focused skill users who have placed all their ability score increases in the score relevant to the skill.[/SBLOCK]Progress Phase[SBLOCK]In the progress phase, the PCs make skill checks to earn successes. There are generally no direct penalties for failing a skill check. During the progress phase, characters may act in any order, and may take one of the following actions:Ordinary Skill Check[SBLOCK]Ordinary skill checks are normally made at Moderate DCs, and earn the party one success for every successful check. The DM may allow a PC to attempt a Hard skill check in order to earn two successes, or an Easy skill check with the proviso that the party accumulates one failure if the skill check fails. Before the DM allows either of these options, he may require the player to describe how a successful Hard check would earn the extra success, or how a failed Easy check would set the party back.Primary Skills[SBLOCK]The DM should select three or four skills as primary skills. These are skills that can be used repeatedly during the progress phase to gain successes. If a player comes up with a creative way to use a skill to make progress, the DM may elect to make it another primary skill, or declare it to be a bonus skill (see below) that does not reduce the experience award.Example: Bluff, Diplomacy and Insight, as per the Negotiation skill challenge.[/SBLOCK]Bonus Skills[SBLOCK]The DM may also select one or more bonus skills. These are skills that can only be used to gain a limited number of successes. Generally, a single bonus skill will not significantly change the difficulty of the skill complication. However, if the encounter features a number of bonus skills, the DM could either add an equal number of backlash skills (see below) or reduce the experience award by the equivalent of a minion monster of the same level for every two extra bonus skills.Example: History, as per the Negotiation skill challenge.[/SBLOCK]Backlash Skills[SBLOCK]The DM may also decide that the use of some skills will result in a failure for the party, either automatically or if the PC fails a Hard skill check. As with bonus skills, a single backlash skill will not significantly change the difficulty of the skill complication. However, if the encounter features a number of backlash skills, the DM could either add an equal number of bonus skills or increase the experience award by the equivalent of a minion monster of the same level for every two extra backlash skills.Example: Using Intimidate against the Duke, as per the Negotiation skill challenge.[/SBLOCK]Recovery Skills[SBLOCK]The DM may also allow certain skills to negate one or more of the party's failures. Ideally, the DM should not select one of the primary skills in order to give the other PCs a chance to contribute to the skill encounter. Recovery skills reduce the difficulty of the complication, so the DM should either use Hard DCs or reduce the experience award by the equivalent of a minion monster of the same level for every two extra recovery skills.Example: A PC who attempts to recall or research information about the advisor may attempt a Hard Religion or Streetwise check. If the PC succeeds, he discovers information about the advisor's links to an evil cult which he can use to discredit the advisor and negate one failure that he caused.[/SBLOCK][/SBLOCK]Aid Another[SBLOCK]A character may Aid Another in place of making an ordinary skill check. If the character succeeds at an Easy skill check, he does not earn a success, but he may grant a +2 bonus to an ally's skill check. A character may choose to attempt a Moderate or Hard skill check while using Aid Another and grant a +4 or +6 to another character’s skill check respectively. While a character with a good chance of succeeding at a Moderate or Hard skill check is usually better off attempting an ordinary skill check instead of using Aid Another, the DM may sometimes rule that a character is unable to use his skill effectively and must work through an ally, e.g. a PC with a high Diplomacy check is unable to speak a particular language and can only increase the Diplomacy check of another PC who can.A character may also give up his action during the progress phase to use Aid Another to increase an ally's skill check during the complications phase.[/SBLOCK][/SBLOCK]Complications Phase[SBLOCK]In the complications phase, the PCs make skill checks to avoid accumulating failures. Since a skill complication is modeled after an elite monster, it gets to "act" twice during this phase. While it makes tactical sense for the skill complication to continually target the PC with the weakest skills, requiring different PCs to make skill checks may make the game more enjoyable as it gets more players involved and spreads around the responsibility for (and burden of) failures. Generally, a skill check that targets a specific character should have a Moderate DC, while a skill check that any character may attempt should have a Hard DC.Example: During the complications phase, the Duke takes one of the following actions:[SBLOCK]"Why Are You Staring At Me?"The Duke addresses the character who made the lowest Insight check during the last progress phase. The character must succeed at a Moderate DC Bluff or Diplomacy check to avoid accumulating a failure."What Did You Just Say?"The Duke asks the character who made the lowest Bluff or Diplomacy check during the last progress phase to clarify what he just said. The character must succeed at a Moderate DC Bluff or Diplomacy check to avoid accumulating a failure."I Grow Weary Of This Discussion"If none of the characters made a Bluff, Diplomacy or Insight check during the last progress phase, one character must succeed at a Hard Bluff or Diplomacy check to maintain the Duke’s interest in the negotiations and avoid accumulating a failure.[/SBLOCK]In addition, the advisor takes one of the following actions:[SBLOCK]"My Lord, I Sense Something Odd"If a character attempted a Bluff check during the last progress phase, the advisor notices this and brings it to the Duke's attention. The DM may decide that the advisor does not notice a Bluff check that would have beat a Hard DC. The character must succeed at a Moderate Diplomacy or Hard Bluff check to avoid accumulating a failure. In addition, a character who fails takes a -2 penalty on checks made in the progress phase for the rest of the encounter."My Lord, Have You Considered This?"The advisor tries to counter the characters' arguments by bringing up a point of law, a religious issue, or popular opinion. Any character may attempt a Moderate History, Religion or Streetwise check (as appropriate), or a Hard Diplomacy check to avoid accumulating a failure.Passive-Aggressive TauntThe advisor makes a personal attack on a PC and attempts to provoke him into saying something he will regret. The character must succeed at a Moderate Insight or Hard Diplomacy check to avoid accumulating a failure. In addition, a character who fails takes a -2 penalty on checks made in the complications phase for the rest of the encounter.[/SBLOCK][/SBLOCK][/SBLOCK]Minor and Major Skill Complications[SBLOCK]Minor skill complications are generally not recommended except for very small parties of one or two PCs. A minor skill complication is the equivalent of a normal monster for the purposes of encounter design and experience awards, acts only once during the complications phase, and requires the PCs to earn four successes before four failures.Major skill complications are the equivalent of solo monsters for the purposes of encounter design and experience awards. The additional difficulty is modeled by requiring the PCs to earn twelve successes before six failures.[/SBLOCK]Thoughts? Comments?</blockquote>

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