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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7750328" data-attributes="member: 4937">Let's count the number of times your logic fails you just in this little distance.#1.  So, being quite happy with PC's jumping a great distance is not the same as defending a skill feat.  They simply aren't the same thing.  I can be quite happy with PC's jumping a great distance and not happy with the skill feat.  They are independent of one another. So, you fail.#2. The word impossible is misused.  Why do you think it is impossible to do a 70' long jump?  Well, you think that because in real life, a jump of just 29' is a very long jump.  In real life, it is impossible for a normal human to jump 70' on the surface of the Earth.  The problem with this statement is that all of its logical basis of that statement is inapplicable to the situation.  It's not logical to apply an argument from real life to this situation.  We aren't discussing real life.  We aren't discussing a game trying to simulate real life.  The game takes place in another universe and not on Earth.  The game does not and is not trying to simulate real life.  Moreover, the characters in question have levels and hit points and all sorts of things that they would not have if we were in any way trying to simulate real life.   It's pretty easy to show that even if levels were a reasonable way to simulate real people - and they are not - that there are no people Earth that are more than about 5th level characters.   So, the skills attributed to 5th level and lower characters are not implausible for people in the real world, but the ones attributed to say 15th or 20th level characters are impossible for ordinary people - but these are not ordinary people.  15th level characters are not simulating the real world in any fashion and never ever have been.  (Heck, even first level characters though more plausible as simulations of real life abilities are still not actually motivated primarily with simulating real abilities.)   High level characters are simulating fantasy super-heroes.  They are potential members of some sword swinging, spelling-slinging justice league, and Batman and Captain America have nothing on them.   So the distances are not impossible given the actual conditions being simulated.  They are only impossible in a situation you are illogically including in the game, and one that is irrelevant to the discussion - real life. It's not impossible for a superhero to jump 70', and if you don't want to simulate superheroes than you shouldn't be playing a high level game because high level characters have always been superheroes.  It's not even implausible for a high level character to jump 70' and quite arguably it is necessary for the game.#3 Again, just because I don't like the skill feat as written it is illogical to conclude from that that I actually agree with you.  Those are again two completely different things.  There aren't only two possibilities here.  I can both not like the skill feat as written and still disagree with you.  In fact I'm doing both, but you lack the basic logic to deal with that.  There is a contrary point of view and the fact that I'm being contrary to you in no way means that I actually like the skill feat and am defending it.  If you had a bit of logic in your thoughts in this thread, you would realize that.</blockquote>

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