Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 2597537" data-attributes="member: 3051">Circular logic.&nbsp; You're saying that since you feel the core rules don't encourage dabbling in non-key skills, you'll change to a system that makes it easier to do so.&nbsp; Of COURSE the advantage of the core-rule dabbler will go away, then.&nbsp; My point is this: under the core rules, someone who chooses to put a handful of ranks in nonstandard skills has a substantial advantage already on opposed rolls, since the majority of high-level players tend to fall to the two extremes.&nbsp; Either they maxxed out the skill in question, in which case you shouldn't even try (and trying to raise the skill further would only be a waste), or they haven't spent anything (in which case even 4-5 ranks make a huge difference).&nbsp; So, part of the &quot;problem&quot; the skill group system seems to be fixing is something the players could already do just by spending their skill points more intelligently.I've had players tell me to my face that my Sorcerer was &quot;gimped&quot; because he didn't have max ranks in Spellcraft.&nbsp; And it's ridiculous; once you have enough skill points to meet the typical DCs you face, you're far better off moving those skill points to something more useful.&nbsp; (In my Sorcerer's case, a half-dozen ranks of Speak Language.)&nbsp; But I just don't see this happen very often; in my last group, almost all of the characters had just enough skill points to max their key skills, and nothing else.&nbsp; When I made my Psion character (Shaper), I deliberately put more INT into him than I needed, just so that I'd have plenty of extra skill points to spend on &quot;fun&quot; skills; he had almost forty ranks in six different Craft skills, just so that when I used Fabricate to make a statue out of the &quot;raw material&quot; of the enemy's castle wall, I could make something artistic.So anyway, my original point: instead of large-scale changes that require all sorts of rebalancing fixes, just fix it so the players can add the one or two skills they REALLY want, or just encourage them to use the existing system to add a few ranks here and there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Spatzimaus, post: 2597537, member: 3051"] Circular logic. You're saying that since you feel the core rules don't encourage dabbling in non-key skills, you'll change to a system that makes it easier to do so. Of COURSE the advantage of the core-rule dabbler will go away, then. My point is this: under the core rules, someone who chooses to put a handful of ranks in nonstandard skills has a substantial advantage already on opposed rolls, since the majority of high-level players tend to fall to the two extremes. Either they maxxed out the skill in question, in which case you shouldn't even try (and trying to raise the skill further would only be a waste), or they haven't spent anything (in which case even 4-5 ranks make a huge difference). So, part of the "problem" the skill group system seems to be fixing is something the players could already do just by spending their skill points more intelligently. I've had players tell me to my face that my Sorcerer was "gimped" because he didn't have max ranks in Spellcraft. And it's ridiculous; once you have enough skill points to meet the typical DCs you face, you're far better off moving those skill points to something more useful. (In my Sorcerer's case, a half-dozen ranks of Speak Language.) But I just don't see this happen very often; in my last group, almost all of the characters had just enough skill points to max their key skills, and nothing else. When I made my Psion character (Shaper), I deliberately put more INT into him than I needed, just so that I'd have plenty of extra skill points to spend on "fun" skills; he had almost forty ranks in six different Craft skills, just so that when I used [i]Fabricate[/i] to make a statue out of the "raw material" of the enemy's castle wall, I could make something artistic. So anyway, my original point: instead of large-scale changes that require all sorts of rebalancing fixes, just fix it so the players can add the one or two skills they REALLY want, or just encourage them to use the existing system to add a few ranks here and there. [/QUOTE]

Verification