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Skill Levels - Too High or Am I High Handed?
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<blockquote data-quote="Seravin" data-source="post: 1555769" data-attributes="member: 6783"><p>Sounds like an intriguing character concept. I'm running a Night Below game in which one of the players is doing something similar. Her 'courier' started out as a straight rogue (and still is in the story hour) who's goal was to be able to interact with everyone. Everyone.</p><p>She cross-classed into speak languages every level and devoted a skill point to diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, and gather info practically every level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>She's sounds like she's good at her job - just like I assume the party's fighters and wizards are as good as theirs. The thing is, it's easier to create a better fighter and wizard - those classes make sense in the game. A bishop might be quite sociable, but in the end he's a bishop and probably has other focuses (foci?) and thus not as specialized.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I personally wouldn't ask the player to remake the character - there would be little point, as I bet she could virtually recreate the character with a little thought - at best you push the problem off for a level or two. Still, if it's not working for you, try trading out abilities instead. Explain what problems are causing you headaches and see how she's willing to help. The game is suppose to be fun for both player and dm. Delayed advancement until you get a handle on things might be okay with her</p><p></p><p>Another thing you might want to do is look at the character's place in the campaign world. Amongst the Imperial citizens in my game, a sixteen year old girl, noble or not, would constantly have to prove herself, especially if she doesn't have any strong talents.</p><p></p><p>Sure, she can fight a little better than the average raw recruit, but she's only an apprentice wizard at best. People who met her and talked with her would find her friendly and likeable (normally at least, barring other circumstances), but she would probably be treated like a favored daughter by the older folk and at best a 'young' woman with some small skills by those closer to her age. Likeable, yes, but not someone they'd even necessarily listen to or even take advice from unless she's developed a track record of knowing what's going on and has given good advice before.</p><p></p><p>A truly social equal or nemisis for her would be a thieve's guild leader, an ambassador, a merchant, or better yet (I think) a spy. Someone who depends on the same skills and who also has strength in the knowledge skills she lacks. (example: Knowledge (Local) allows for instantaneous checks to know some fact relating to the area rather than spending a few hours trying to find someone who knows something.)</p><p></p><p>In my game I had to pay close attention to the motives of the people my players interacted with and figure out beforehand how they would react to the various players. Kind of like designing a fighting encounter really. </p><p></p><p>I also had to determine what the various attitudes meant in my game. My favorite example is: The party meets a mind flayer and instead of flattening them immediately decides to talk (maybe from the shadows where it can't be seen). The face character talks, rolls a 20 and generates a 43 on the diplomacy roll - the mind flayer goes from unfriendly straight to helpful. </p><p></p><p>My interpretation of that particular attitude shift would indicate the following - first the mind flayer views the character (and only the character) favorably - she just took herself off the menu. Second, the mind flayer is still going to want to eat brains, her companions are potentially fair game but unless it was hungry would probably not upset her by eating her friends (in front of her at least). Third, its plans for world domination are still forefront on its mind. It won't tell her about the plans unless it can see a way of using her (in a non-harmful manner) and certainly wouldn't stop the plans for her - though it might delay long enough for her to get away (giving her a chance to try and stop it). </p><p></p><p>Worst case for her, the flayer might start to obsess over her and decides she would be the perfect companion - one of the slave-races that could understand and be useful - once she was enslaved and became properly tractable. She'd be like a pet who's particularly well trained - kind of like a human herder.</p><p></p><p>In the city, the bishop might look upon her kindly and humor her, but he'd listen to the fighters first in matters of war (what army did she command?), the merchants in matter of trade (what merchant house is she a member of? How much in trade does she bring to the city?), and wizards of power in matters of magic. Sure, she'd be useful in finding things out but who'd trust such a young person's interpretation of the data (adults are funny that way)?</p><p>Still, he'll help her when she's in trouble as long as it doesn't significantly endanger him or his position (ex: "I believe you when you tell me you didn't kill the guard, but you are a fugitive. I'll have to summon the guards, but I am old it will take me several minutes to find them. Find the evidence to clear yourself and come to me - here's a few coins and a potion for that nasty cut.")</p><p></p><p>Anyway, the post is almost long enough. Whatever you decide to do, make sure you talk it over with the player - especially in how you'll deal with her diplomacy rolls and NPC reactions. Helpful shouldn't mean slave, merely concerned enough for her welfare to actually stir themselves to help.</p><p>Also, plan your encounters appropriately - the diplomacy encounters shouldn't outnumber the fighting encounters. The good news is that there's a potential plot point in every diplomacy encounter.</p><p></p><p>-Good luck in whatever happens. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Seravin, post: 1555769, member: 6783"] Sounds like an intriguing character concept. I'm running a Night Below game in which one of the players is doing something similar. Her 'courier' started out as a straight rogue (and still is in the story hour) who's goal was to be able to interact with everyone. Everyone. She cross-classed into speak languages every level and devoted a skill point to diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, and gather info practically every level. She's sounds like she's good at her job - just like I assume the party's fighters and wizards are as good as theirs. The thing is, it's easier to create a better fighter and wizard - those classes make sense in the game. A bishop might be quite sociable, but in the end he's a bishop and probably has other focuses (foci?) and thus not as specialized. I personally wouldn't ask the player to remake the character - there would be little point, as I bet she could virtually recreate the character with a little thought - at best you push the problem off for a level or two. Still, if it's not working for you, try trading out abilities instead. Explain what problems are causing you headaches and see how she's willing to help. The game is suppose to be fun for both player and dm. Delayed advancement until you get a handle on things might be okay with her Another thing you might want to do is look at the character's place in the campaign world. Amongst the Imperial citizens in my game, a sixteen year old girl, noble or not, would constantly have to prove herself, especially if she doesn't have any strong talents. Sure, she can fight a little better than the average raw recruit, but she's only an apprentice wizard at best. People who met her and talked with her would find her friendly and likeable (normally at least, barring other circumstances), but she would probably be treated like a favored daughter by the older folk and at best a 'young' woman with some small skills by those closer to her age. Likeable, yes, but not someone they'd even necessarily listen to or even take advice from unless she's developed a track record of knowing what's going on and has given good advice before. A truly social equal or nemisis for her would be a thieve's guild leader, an ambassador, a merchant, or better yet (I think) a spy. Someone who depends on the same skills and who also has strength in the knowledge skills she lacks. (example: Knowledge (Local) allows for instantaneous checks to know some fact relating to the area rather than spending a few hours trying to find someone who knows something.) In my game I had to pay close attention to the motives of the people my players interacted with and figure out beforehand how they would react to the various players. Kind of like designing a fighting encounter really. I also had to determine what the various attitudes meant in my game. My favorite example is: The party meets a mind flayer and instead of flattening them immediately decides to talk (maybe from the shadows where it can't be seen). The face character talks, rolls a 20 and generates a 43 on the diplomacy roll - the mind flayer goes from unfriendly straight to helpful. My interpretation of that particular attitude shift would indicate the following - first the mind flayer views the character (and only the character) favorably - she just took herself off the menu. Second, the mind flayer is still going to want to eat brains, her companions are potentially fair game but unless it was hungry would probably not upset her by eating her friends (in front of her at least). Third, its plans for world domination are still forefront on its mind. It won't tell her about the plans unless it can see a way of using her (in a non-harmful manner) and certainly wouldn't stop the plans for her - though it might delay long enough for her to get away (giving her a chance to try and stop it). Worst case for her, the flayer might start to obsess over her and decides she would be the perfect companion - one of the slave-races that could understand and be useful - once she was enslaved and became properly tractable. She'd be like a pet who's particularly well trained - kind of like a human herder. In the city, the bishop might look upon her kindly and humor her, but he'd listen to the fighters first in matters of war (what army did she command?), the merchants in matter of trade (what merchant house is she a member of? How much in trade does she bring to the city?), and wizards of power in matters of magic. Sure, she'd be useful in finding things out but who'd trust such a young person's interpretation of the data (adults are funny that way)? Still, he'll help her when she's in trouble as long as it doesn't significantly endanger him or his position (ex: "I believe you when you tell me you didn't kill the guard, but you are a fugitive. I'll have to summon the guards, but I am old it will take me several minutes to find them. Find the evidence to clear yourself and come to me - here's a few coins and a potion for that nasty cut.") Anyway, the post is almost long enough. Whatever you decide to do, make sure you talk it over with the player - especially in how you'll deal with her diplomacy rolls and NPC reactions. Helpful shouldn't mean slave, merely concerned enough for her welfare to actually stir themselves to help. Also, plan your encounters appropriately - the diplomacy encounters shouldn't outnumber the fighting encounters. The good news is that there's a potential plot point in every diplomacy encounter. -Good luck in whatever happens. :) [/QUOTE]
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