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<blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 5474533" data-attributes="member: 5890">Most parties I've seen will hit a minion with regular attacks on that number, and most regular attacks will have secondary effects to killing minions.Well, first there are such at-wills, based on the DCs you expect. Second it doesn't need to be at-wills. Spending an encounter power to target a 5x5 area of skill-minions PLUS damage all the regular foes within the area is going to be much better than spending one action on the minions then one action on the real foes.It's always been a personal peeve of mine that the three social skills seem to always get treated as &quot;diplomacy is any time you talk, bluff is any time you lie and intimidate is used for shows of brute strength&quot;. To me diplomacy is convincing people by making them like you, bluff is convincing people by making them believe you and intimidate is convincing people by making them afraid of something. Some degree of overlap isn't a problem until you start saying &quot;you can't intimidate these guys into being scared, you have to bluff them into being scared&quot;, at which point you're really saying &quot;no&quot; to a player without much of a reason to back it up apart from &quot;because I don't like that solution&quot;.See, I think these play into the idea of having a terrain or creature-linked skill power for creatures. I also like them more because they're using less than a standard action to accomplish: attack powers that can kill minions with this little effort are rare indeed, so the players aren't losing anything by performing them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Saeviomagy, post: 5474533, member: 5890"] Most parties I've seen will hit a minion with regular attacks on that number, and most regular attacks will have secondary effects to killing minions. Well, first there are such at-wills, based on the DCs you expect. Second it doesn't need to be at-wills. Spending an encounter power to target a 5x5 area of skill-minions PLUS damage all the regular foes within the area is going to be much better than spending one action on the minions then one action on the real foes. It's always been a personal peeve of mine that the three social skills seem to always get treated as "diplomacy is any time you talk, bluff is any time you lie and intimidate is used for shows of brute strength". To me diplomacy is convincing people by making them like you, bluff is convincing people by making them believe you and intimidate is convincing people by making them afraid of something. Some degree of overlap isn't a problem until you start saying "you can't intimidate these guys into being scared, you have to bluff them into being scared", at which point you're really saying "no" to a player without much of a reason to back it up apart from "because I don't like that solution". See, I think these play into the idea of having a terrain or creature-linked skill power for creatures. I also like them more because they're using less than a standard action to accomplish: attack powers that can kill minions with this little effort are rare indeed, so the players aren't losing anything by performing them. [/QUOTE]

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