Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
skill proficiencies point buy
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7617448" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>I understand your concept, I just disagree that the idea that a <strong>character</strong> is not observing their environment exists.</p><p></p><p>Now, an alert character, acting on player instructions, might do things which give bonuses or even remove the need for a roll to observe.</p><p></p><p>But absent that the character is still observing what they can of the world. The DM has a set of tools to determine what the character experiences, such as vision modes (for seeing in darkness), languages known (for understanding written words), and perception for awareness.</p><p></p><p>The DM uses these tool as the filter to know what to describe of the world. A character, living in the world and experiencing it, can notice things the player does not think to ask about - just like in real life you may notice something walking down the street that was not a conscious decision to observe.</p><p></p><p>A simple example is a strong smell. Players may not think to ask if they smell something odd, but the DM should determine if the characters do and if so relay that information to the appropriate players (if any). That's a key facet of the DM's job - determining what the characters experience and giving that information to the players.</p><p></p><p>Passive scores are a gamist shorthand for the DM so you have a DC to compare things like NPC stealth or sleight of hand checks against PCs instead of needing them to roll all the time (and potentially picking up information from the need for a roll).</p><p></p><p>The fact that the Observant feat is poorly designed -- and I agree with you that it is and for the same reason -- is only an argument against that feat and should be taken against it directly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I even mentioned before that your table may be happy with it. That doesn't change that in a public discussion I wish to call out that this rule seriously impacts the probabilities -- important information for others who would consider this. Maybe it will work well for them as well, just go into it informed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No problems, I was having the same issues. They upgraded ENworld to https and there's a bit of an issue with linefeeds in the WYSIWYG editor. Changing to one of the others for now seems to put them back.</p><p></p><p>Actually, I hit preview and it seems to be working again so maybe it's already fixed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7617448, member: 20564"] I understand your concept, I just disagree that the idea that a [B]character[/B] is not observing their environment exists. Now, an alert character, acting on player instructions, might do things which give bonuses or even remove the need for a roll to observe. But absent that the character is still observing what they can of the world. The DM has a set of tools to determine what the character experiences, such as vision modes (for seeing in darkness), languages known (for understanding written words), and perception for awareness. The DM uses these tool as the filter to know what to describe of the world. A character, living in the world and experiencing it, can notice things the player does not think to ask about - just like in real life you may notice something walking down the street that was not a conscious decision to observe. A simple example is a strong smell. Players may not think to ask if they smell something odd, but the DM should determine if the characters do and if so relay that information to the appropriate players (if any). That's a key facet of the DM's job - determining what the characters experience and giving that information to the players. Passive scores are a gamist shorthand for the DM so you have a DC to compare things like NPC stealth or sleight of hand checks against PCs instead of needing them to roll all the time (and potentially picking up information from the need for a roll). The fact that the Observant feat is poorly designed -- and I agree with you that it is and for the same reason -- is only an argument against that feat and should be taken against it directly. I even mentioned before that your table may be happy with it. That doesn't change that in a public discussion I wish to call out that this rule seriously impacts the probabilities -- important information for others who would consider this. Maybe it will work well for them as well, just go into it informed. No problems, I was having the same issues. They upgraded ENworld to https and there's a bit of an issue with linefeeds in the WYSIWYG editor. Changing to one of the others for now seems to put them back. Actually, I hit preview and it seems to be working again so maybe it's already fixed. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
skill proficiencies point buy
Top