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Skill vs NADs (fort,ref,will)
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5241410" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Check, my math, but here's the gist of it.</p><p></p><p>Ability score vs NAD at level 1 = ability bonus + 1/2 level bonus vs NAD. A monster has a NAD of around 13 at level 1. A PC with a 10 stat has +0, thus he needs a 13. At 30th level the same PC has a 12 stat for total +16 and a monster has a 42 defense. A PC that is pumping that stat will have a +25. </p><p></p><p>In my original post though I was suggesting opposed ability score checks don't slip behind much, not attacks vs NADs. Monster ability scores only increase by half level. So if you use a score-vs-score check then you actually get a pretty good system. I think I didn't make that clear in that part of my post (I was half asleep). The rules don't present this technique as an option, but it is one that actually makes pretty good sense. It will work well for situations where say you need to out muscle a monster with pure strength or outwit it in a contest of pure intelligence. The math here is really simple, monsters get +15 to stats over 30 levels and PCs get +9, so they lose 6 points, or 4 for some EDs. PCs good stats start out 2-7 better than the average for monsters or at worst about 1 worse to 4 better if its the monsters 'primary attack stat'. This means an 18 STR fighter vs a level 1 13 STR monster needs a 5, and the same fighter with 28 STR at level 30 vs a 28 STR monster is dead even. A PC that doesn't pump his stat and started with a 10 is now 12 vs 28, which is indeed hopeless, but presumably he's not going to attempt to arm wrestle a level 30 monster either (and expect a chance to win). Monster's do have a pretty wide variance on ability scores, so there will be a lot of situations where at 30th level it's impossible to win or impossible to lose, but its still a lot better than using skill checks where it hardly ever works right at high epic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5241410, member: 82106"] Check, my math, but here's the gist of it. Ability score vs NAD at level 1 = ability bonus + 1/2 level bonus vs NAD. A monster has a NAD of around 13 at level 1. A PC with a 10 stat has +0, thus he needs a 13. At 30th level the same PC has a 12 stat for total +16 and a monster has a 42 defense. A PC that is pumping that stat will have a +25. In my original post though I was suggesting opposed ability score checks don't slip behind much, not attacks vs NADs. Monster ability scores only increase by half level. So if you use a score-vs-score check then you actually get a pretty good system. I think I didn't make that clear in that part of my post (I was half asleep). The rules don't present this technique as an option, but it is one that actually makes pretty good sense. It will work well for situations where say you need to out muscle a monster with pure strength or outwit it in a contest of pure intelligence. The math here is really simple, monsters get +15 to stats over 30 levels and PCs get +9, so they lose 6 points, or 4 for some EDs. PCs good stats start out 2-7 better than the average for monsters or at worst about 1 worse to 4 better if its the monsters 'primary attack stat'. This means an 18 STR fighter vs a level 1 13 STR monster needs a 5, and the same fighter with 28 STR at level 30 vs a 28 STR monster is dead even. A PC that doesn't pump his stat and started with a 10 is now 12 vs 28, which is indeed hopeless, but presumably he's not going to attempt to arm wrestle a level 30 monster either (and expect a chance to win). Monster's do have a pretty wide variance on ability scores, so there will be a lot of situations where at 30th level it's impossible to win or impossible to lose, but its still a lot better than using skill checks where it hardly ever works right at high epic. [/QUOTE]
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Skill vs NADs (fort,ref,will)
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