D&D 5E Skilled contests and advice wanted

[Tekerra]

First off let me say I quite like 5E

I do have an issue of how skills work in regards to skilled contests (archery competition, dagger throwing etc). I am aware of, and understand the concept of "bounded accuracy" (or at least I think I do). Unlike in previous versions where a BAB may go as high as +20, in 5E the Proficiency bonus maxes out at plus 6. The idea is that as a character progresses, their improvement is tied up in numerous things and not just the proficiency bonus (HP, class features etc). A first level character is much weaker than a 20th level character in numerous ways... I get all that.

My issue is when its not a life and death situation and things like amount of attacks or HP don't come into play. For example 1st level fighter with stats of 10 would have 1d20 +2 to make an archery shot in a competition(a range of 3 -22). Next up, a 16th level fighter with with a +5 proficiency bonus comes along and takes a shot (assuming the same stats), they would have a possible roll range of 6 - 26. The vast majority of the range in both cases is the random die roll. With only a small amount of luck on a few shots the 1st level character could easy beat a higher level character. I am aware on a long competition the +3 bonus the higher level character will average higher scores.

This basic concept applies to different situations where it is a straight contest skill (HP damage dealt etc don't come into play).

Am I reading this wrong (always a possibility)

If I'm not, any suggestions on how to fix it. Like I said I quite like 5E and don't want to reinvent the wheel by changing the proficiency bonus progression through the levels.

 

[Astrosicebear]

That is indeed the point of bounded accuracy. To make characters and monsters more useful over larger level swaths.

HP is the primary indicator of "level" or "power" in 5e.

But dont forget that 16th level archer could easily get 3-5 shots in (depending on abilities used and choices) to the first level's one shot.

 

[Lrdroland]

That would only help a timed test. Unless you gave like a +2 to each shot you don't take.

 

[Roger]

If I'm not, any suggestions on how to fix it.

You could try using static contests. If you want to see a Contest of Strength, you don't need to roll anything -- you just compare Strengths and whoever is the strongest is the strongest. Same thing with archery, etc.



Cheers,
Roger

 

[nomotog]

You forgot about class abilities. The rouge gets a few nice abilities that makes them good with skills. You could extend some of these abilities to other classes.

The ability to re-roll skill checks could be a decent idea maybe? Something like you get one free re roll on skill challenges per 4 levels. It's still possible for the novice archer to beat the pro archer, but the pro gets to re roll their lowest roles.

 

[Paraxis]

It is the nature of the beast. This is D&D, there are other systems that handle what you are looking for better but not much can be done here.

First issue, reflecting the difference in capabilities of low and high level characters. Well you have ability score increases and feats, so in that archery contest the high level competitor is going to have a 20 dex and the sharpshooter feat. You also have difference in classes, the fighter with the archery fighting style has a +2 bonus. If not archery rogue and bard expertise could help represent skill differences.

Second issue, the swingyness of the d20, well that can only be changed if you change the dice. Roll 2d10 instead it makes results be more average. If the attack hits and the two d10's are doubles consider it a critical hit.

But to be honest ask why are low level and high level opponents competing against each other? To challenge the players shouldn't the contestants be on close to equal footing.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I would suggest that, in a contest, the person with the highest bonus automatically wins. If they're the same, then have them roll.

 

[TerraDave]

Well, in the 5E world, if they have the same stats and everything else the same, then yes, not much of a difference. A robin hood type would probably have other advantages.

Speaking of which, you can impose disadvantage to, say, "hit the bulls-eye". This reduces the chance of a fluky high role. as does repeated shots (as you note, and which are part of many contests). You could also bring in range or (equivalent to) cover which might favor someone with sniper sharpshooter (or an equivalent ability)

 

[SkidAce]

If the wide spread of results is what concerns you, and I agree that it pushes "luck" to the front of a "skill" based event, reduce the variable*.

Low level 1d6+2 versus the high level 1d6+6. ONLY do this in situations where SKILL is the primary factor, but you want a "slight" variance.

The best the low level guy can do with a great (from his point of view) is roll an 8. Whereas the skilled guy can roll a 12.

The worst the low level guy can do is a 3, and the skilled guy's worst is 7.

* (not trained in statistics)

 

[LostSoul]

Here's a suggestion that's out of the box:

Each character rolls a number of d20s equal to the bonus modifier they'd have. e.g. If you have a +6 you roll 6d20.

If one character has a penalty, that character gets 1d20 and apply the penalty as bonus dice to the other character(s). e.g. If you have a +2 and the other guy has a -1, you roll 3d20 and he rolls 1d20.

Whoever rolls the highest wins. Don't apply modifiers to any of the dice. e.g. If you have a +6 you roll 6d20, not 1d20+6 six times.

The number of dice that come up higher than the loser's highest number determines the level of success. e.g. If I roll a 15, 10, 9, and 6, and you roll an 8, 7, 7, and 5, I have three dice (15, 10, and 9) higher than your 8. (The 7, 7, and 5 are irrelevant here.) I have no idea what extra levels of success count for, but it's something. Another way to look at it is that the loser has set the DC and the number of rolls that beat the DC determine the level of success.

If there's a tie on the two highest dice, throw them out and compare the next two highest. e.g. If I roll a 15 and 14 and you roll a 15 and 12, we get rid of the 15s and compare the next highest - 14 vs. 12. If those are tied, keep throwing them out and comparing the next two highest; no dice left counts as a 0. e.g. If I have 3d20 and you have 2d20 and I roll 15, 13, and 7 and you roll 15 and 13 then we throw out the 15 & 13; you have no dice left so my 7 wins. If all the dice are the same, then you have a tie (and a pretty rare occurrence).

Not really sure what the odds are.