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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7857779" data-attributes="member: 6750235">That's only accurate if the DM decides the outcome is in doubt for whatever reason and a roll is made instead of narrating the action.&nbsp; That gets back to rolling being the enemy of action.I'm not sure which low level spell you are comparing to which action.&nbsp; To which are you referring?In that one DM might handle the checks differently from another DM.I'm going to say that depends on in what way.&nbsp; Spell casters are not great for dealing damage or taking it, and they can add mobility but they don't have bonus movement all the time or things like cunning action.&nbsp; The battle master who does a disarm and push to separate an opponent from his or her weapon makes a big contribution in damage reduction in the process.I've seen far too many spell casters struggling as they didn't realize they might be targeted and take damage, or fail a save, or lose a concentration spell.&nbsp; Then they start losing that first action on a defensive spell.&nbsp; A lot of spells require attack rolls and whiff, or save for effect and whiff.&nbsp; Then the action and slot are gone.&nbsp; Sure, there are save for half spells and auto-hit spells, but they don't do the damage those martial classes are doing even with a save for half.Playing a spell caster isn't the easy street people think it is, IME.&nbsp; They certainly aren't struggling to be useful but I don't find martial characters struggle to be useful either.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7857779, member: 6750235"] That's only accurate if the DM decides the outcome is in doubt for whatever reason and a roll is made instead of narrating the action. That gets back to rolling being the enemy of action. I'm not sure which low level spell you are comparing to which action. To which are you referring? In that one DM might handle the checks differently from another DM. I'm going to say that depends on in what way. Spell casters are not great for dealing damage or taking it, and they can add mobility but they don't have bonus movement all the time or things like cunning action. The battle master who does a disarm and push to separate an opponent from his or her weapon makes a big contribution in damage reduction in the process. I've seen far too many spell casters struggling as they didn't realize they might be targeted and take damage, or fail a save, or lose a concentration spell. Then they start losing that first action on a defensive spell. A lot of spells require attack rolls and whiff, or save for effect and whiff. Then the action and slot are gone. Sure, there are save for half spells and auto-hit spells, but they don't do the damage those martial classes are doing even with a save for half. Playing a spell caster isn't the easy street people think it is, IME. They certainly aren't struggling to be useful but I don't find martial characters struggle to be useful either. [/QUOTE]

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