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Skills in 5E. Do we want them?
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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 5782132" data-attributes="member: 5143"><p>Yeah, if someone has a high charisma, that's likely what I'd do. If they were dead set on playing a high charisma person but were bad at roleplaying. I'd make allowances for people who just CAN'T roleplay for some reason.</p><p></p><p>I know the reason the social skills exist. And I was 100% in favor of them back when 3e came out. However, over time they have encouraged lazy behavior on the parts of players.</p><p></p><p>I want uncharismatic players who want to play charismatic PCs. But I think the disadvantages that came with the skill check mechanics are too large a price to pay for that ability.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And this is my major problem with trying to use the skill mechanics for social skills. I ask people what they say. They say "I convince him to help us". I say "How?" They say "I don't know, I say something convincing, I have +20 to diplomacy, so I'm very convincing".</p><p></p><p>So, here I have a couple of choices:</p><p></p><p>-Give him a penalty for not roleplaying out the scene or even giving me any reasons why the person should help them, even if said in a non-roleplaying way.</p><p></p><p>-Don't give him a penalty because he didn't roleplay poorly and just accept the roll at face value.</p><p></p><p>But given the reason for allowing skill checks in the first place is to allow people who are bad at acting or can't act out their check for some reason to still play a charismatic character...isn't it counter productive to then give them a penalty to their rolls for not acting out their roll?</p><p></p><p>And how big of a penalty do I give them if I'm giving them one? This one is edition dependent, but in 4e, if I give a 1st level character -5, I'm removing the entire bonus they get from training, possibly making their character no longer the best at diplomacy. If the party has a choice between allowing the person who is bad at roleplaying to make a roll at -5 or allow the person who is good at roleplaying to roll at even odds or even a bonus for good roleplaying, it might be a better idea for them to choose the better roleplayer with modifiers, once again putting the poor roleplayer in a position of "not being able to play the charismatic character". If the penalty is too big, you are basically ignoring the results of the dice and deciding based on roleplaying anyways. </p><p></p><p>If you give out a -2, then the penalty probably doesn't matter. If a penalty doesn't matter, then why bother giving it out?</p><p></p><p>And when it comes down to that, I normally decide not to give out modifiers for poor OR good roleplaying. Which, comes down to no one even trying to roleplay, because there's just no reason to try.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 5782132, member: 5143"] Yeah, if someone has a high charisma, that's likely what I'd do. If they were dead set on playing a high charisma person but were bad at roleplaying. I'd make allowances for people who just CAN'T roleplay for some reason. I know the reason the social skills exist. And I was 100% in favor of them back when 3e came out. However, over time they have encouraged lazy behavior on the parts of players. I want uncharismatic players who want to play charismatic PCs. But I think the disadvantages that came with the skill check mechanics are too large a price to pay for that ability. And this is my major problem with trying to use the skill mechanics for social skills. I ask people what they say. They say "I convince him to help us". I say "How?" They say "I don't know, I say something convincing, I have +20 to diplomacy, so I'm very convincing". So, here I have a couple of choices: -Give him a penalty for not roleplaying out the scene or even giving me any reasons why the person should help them, even if said in a non-roleplaying way. -Don't give him a penalty because he didn't roleplay poorly and just accept the roll at face value. But given the reason for allowing skill checks in the first place is to allow people who are bad at acting or can't act out their check for some reason to still play a charismatic character...isn't it counter productive to then give them a penalty to their rolls for not acting out their roll? And how big of a penalty do I give them if I'm giving them one? This one is edition dependent, but in 4e, if I give a 1st level character -5, I'm removing the entire bonus they get from training, possibly making their character no longer the best at diplomacy. If the party has a choice between allowing the person who is bad at roleplaying to make a roll at -5 or allow the person who is good at roleplaying to roll at even odds or even a bonus for good roleplaying, it might be a better idea for them to choose the better roleplayer with modifiers, once again putting the poor roleplayer in a position of "not being able to play the charismatic character". If the penalty is too big, you are basically ignoring the results of the dice and deciding based on roleplaying anyways. If you give out a -2, then the penalty probably doesn't matter. If a penalty doesn't matter, then why bother giving it out? And when it comes down to that, I normally decide not to give out modifiers for poor OR good roleplaying. Which, comes down to no one even trying to roleplay, because there's just no reason to try. [/QUOTE]
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