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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6095196" data-attributes="member: 82106">But you're also kind of overstating it. In 4e if a character puts no resources into something then their bonus will grow at about half the rate that it will for a trained PC on a primary score. The hard DC goes from 19 at level 1 to 42 at level 30, an increase of 23 points in 30 levels, of which 1/2 level only covers 15 points. That leaves 8 more points. It is those 8 points that are key because the guy at level 1 who can barely pick a level 1 lock will be 8 points worse (actually 7 points, you get a freebie from level 11/21 score boost) at it at level 30. He's not picking level 30 locks, unless he picks up Thievery, in which case he's STILL 2 points worse off than he was at level 1 relative to a hard lock. A character with no training who's got a primary in the skill is in a similar situation, he'll gain +5 or possibly +6 (some EDs) and will still be a BIT worse off at 30th level on locks. Meanwhile the TRAINED PRIMARY character is also off by a point or 2, but could easily make that up from any of a vast array of options that are likely things which fit his character concept. The point is that as the PCs go traipsing about the dungeon and gain levels the locks get harder, and they get harder FASTER than PCs get better at picking them. NOBODY picks an at-level lock as well at level 30 as at level 1 even in 4e without spending resources specifically on lock picking (grabbing skill focus for instance will cause the best lock pickers a gain of +1 relative to DC increase).  [MENTION=27570]sheadunne[/MENTION] in essence that's what is meant by it is a corner-case that a high level PC would be foiled by a low level lock. They just won't care. If you want to make SURE that they don't even bother to try, by all means just tell the player outright that he's not up to picking that lock. 4e clearly states that any given situation can REQUIRE training, and as soon as that training exists in a PC the whole argument evaporates, they're trained, they should be getting better as they level up.</blockquote>

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