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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 6734488" data-attributes="member: 6790260">In 5e, building on groundwork from 3e and 4e D&D, the majority of skills can be rolled regardless of whether you're Proficient in them, though certain uses of them may not be possible unless you're trained. For example, I don't believe that a Wisdom(Medicine) roll to stabilize a dying ally requires Proficiency, but I do believe that certain forms of diagnosis (determining which specific poison or disease a person suffers from) require Proficiency.Think of it this way: In some games, doing something you aren't good at (like trying to fight with two weapons when you don't have the feat/perk for it) gives you a substantial minus, and you invest resources to remove that minus--negative numbers are considered the "starting point," and one must build up to reach 0 or beyond. In other games--like 4e and 5e--you start with zero benefits to a particular action, and must build up to a high positive value. In the end, the two are essentially equivalent mathematically, but the "start at negative" requires some amount of subtraction, which is a slower mental operation than addition, so there is an efficiency difference that makes "start from 0 and add" slightly superior.Such customization technically isn't necessary, no. But I think it makes for a more fulfilling character. 5e has moved away from having deep, intricate customization systems that squeeze out a tiny bonus here or there--it's seen as excessive complexity for minimal gain (or even loss, in some players' eyes).As for Jack of All Trades, I think you need to re-evaluate its significance. Firstly: it was never meant to be a keystone Bard ability. It's a small feature that provides broad competence, and it's essentially unique to the Bard (Champion Fighters get something similar, but it applies only to physical scores, and thus a much, much narrower range of abilities). Secondly: JoAT applies to all "ability checks," including things that normally cannot get Proficiency....such as Initiative. You now have a bonus to initiative that no other character (except a Champion Fighter) can acquire. Third: JoAT means you are never "bad" at any skill--since the maximum (innate) penalty is -1 from having a "dump" stat (8), and the minimum bonus from JoAT is +1, you are always at least mediocre at all skills. With even a modest ability score (say, 14 for a +2 modifier) and reaching level 9, you have a total minimum skill bonus of +4, so you're only 1 point shy of what a total master could do at level 1 (+3 from ability score, +2 from Proficiency), and getting nearly half the bonus that a hyper-focused character would (+4 Proficiency, +5 from maxed stat, = +9 total). It's not huge, to be sure, but with decent-all-around stats and JoAT, there's very little you cannot attempt to do.Add in Expertise (double Proficiency for 2 skills, later 4) and more Proficient skills than most characters, and you're talking about a truly excellent class for skill rolls--as far as 5e is concerned. Remember that the absolute best bonus a character can have on their own is +11 (6 from maximum Proficiency, 5 from maxed stat), so even if you only have a +5 or +6, you're half as good as the very best a person can be. That's nothing to sneeze at.That's...not true, though perhaps there is a terminology issue here. All classes get Ability Score Increases (usually abbreviated as "ASIs") at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19--when you get them, you can increase one ability score by two points, or two ability scores by one point. Two classes get more (Rogue gets one more at level 10; Fighters get two more, one at 6th and one at 14th level). Instead of increasing stats, though, you can choose to take a feat (which might still include +1 to one stat as part of its benefits).Further, there are several things Bards have that either aren't universal, or are truly unique to them. Bards get 1 more skill proficiency than all other characters, and have no limits on what those three skills can be. (Most classes only get to choose 2 proficiencies from a narrow list, plus an extra 2 from background, for a total of 4.) As stated above, if you have a race--like Elf--that grants Proficiency in a skill, this can get you a total of 6 skills, 50% more than most characters. Not too shabby! Jack of All Trades, as I said earlier, then makes sure that there's really nothing you're bad at--in your weakest areas, you're just as good as the average person, and your "merely okay" is better than some "trained experts" (if you have a +2 stat and JoaT, your total is +3 at level 1; if another person is Proficient but with a -1 or +0 from stats, they're only at +2--and won't get better than you for something like 9 levels!)Bards are also full casters in 5e, with a very diverse and flexible spell list. Just about the only thing you don't have is huge blasty/wide-area spells, but everything else, from buffs to debuffs to tricky tricks to basic (single-target) damage, you've got covered. And then on top of that, at high levels (or even middle levels, if you're a Lore Bard), you can steal spells from any other class. You have a smaller pool of options, since you can't learn spells the way a Wizard can and don't have access to the whole list like a Cleric would, but Spell Secrets lets you cherry-pick the best spells from ANY class--a huge, huge benefit if you use it wisely!So, while this is still probably a step down in power in your eyes--going from "I'm the only one capable of doing anything!" to "I'm the only one fair to competent at everything!"--I don't think it's fair to sell the 5e Bard so short. It's a flexible and variable class, capable of being tailored to many different interests, particularly with the contrast between the Colleges of Lore and Valor.</blockquote>

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