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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 6744900" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!Yes, I did read it. I admit I did struggle with that post, actually. I re-wrote it three times, eventually ending up with what I posted. The part you quoted from me was more aimed at "Present this to your DM if you haven't already; number are smaller, and a +2 bonus WILL matter". I'm sorry if that didn't come across. My bad. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />His DM is obviously of the "if you don't have it, you have a penalty" camp. This is fine. I actually don't see his house rules not working...I do see them, like everyone else, including the OP, as drastically changing the "tone" of Skill checks. What I am saying is that I don't think his DM "gets 5e's number range" yet. The whole bounded accuracy thing. I don't think he's truly grasped the concept of "if you have it, you're better....if you don't have it, you're not worse". I think I may have missed or misinterpreted how his DM is handling JoAT. Having +1 more than everyone else (re: being at "only" -4, not -5) for non-skilled ability checks still makes the Bard better than everyone else. The Disadvantage thing is a wash; everyone gets it, so there is no "picking on the bard" here. I'd still suggest either making a new guy or "re-focusing" the RP aspects of the character. As they are using Feats, I'd pick up Skilled as many times as I could; each time adds 3 skills/tools. He also gets another 3 at level 3 (Lore College, iirc). He starts with 3 as well. So, basically, 9 at level 3 (if using the Human Varient where they get a Feat at level 1), 12 skills at level 4, 15 at 8th, 18 at 12th, and...er...stop. At 12th level he would be proficient in ALL SKILLS. Using his DM's house rule, this would be a MASSIVE advantage. While everyone else has 6 or so skills and rolling at -5 with Disadvantage on everything else, the bard is rolling, lets see, any and all skill checks without Disadvantage, and with a bonus of something likely in the +4 to +12 (Expertise doubles Ability Bonus; +4 Proficiency at level 12...and he has ALL skills, so he always adds at least his full +4). Seriously bad ass if you ask me! And this is 'only' at level 12! There are still two more Feats or Ability Score improvements to be had (or 1 if no Human Variant; then up 12th to 16th). Hell, having over half of all the skills at only 4th level would be impressive!Anyway...I can understand the DM's house rule. I don't think it nerfs JoAT as much as it seems. I think that, once the levels start to climb, along with DC's to some extent, that if the Bard focused on the whole "knowledge" thing with taking Skilled as a Feat when he could...well, yeah. Awesome sauce in my book.^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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