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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 7533065" data-attributes="member: 6801845">There's a big difference between a physical challenge - whether that's arm wrestling or detecting someone in the dark - and a social challenge.  The former can be decided with a die roll, the latter can be influenced by a die roll.As far as "virtually" amounting to a DC, no.  There might be if there were significant trickery/lies/deceit.  In my scenario I might be convinced to kill the boyfriend if I believed I or someone else was in imminent danger of being killed and the only way to stop them wast to kill them.  Even then I'd probably have to see the boyfriend pointing a loaded gun and I might shoot first.  But ... that would require far, far more than a simple conversation.  I don't reduce PCs or NPCs to a simple set of numbers controlled by die rolls.I think this thread is a great example of something I see on this and other message boards.  It seems like you don't really want feedback, you want affirmation.  In this case you simply aren't going to get that from me, no matter how much you post.  I've thought about this over the years (this isn't the first time it's come up) and I fundamentally disagree with what you're saying.  What you see as a roleplaying opportunity is something I see as antithetical to roleplaying.  You want to reduce a characters thoughts, decisions and reactions to a simple contest, one which the high charisma player will most likely win the vast majority of time.  My characters are far more than their numbers and their decisions and actions (or attempted actions) shouldn't be controlled by numbers alone unless there is magic involved.So I agree with the barbarian's player, if I were him and you insisted on running the game this way I would find a different game.</blockquote>

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