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<blockquote data-quote="GameOgre" data-source="post: 7533843" data-attributes="member: 57914"><p>All of this is hogwash. The side in favor of skill verse skill for persuasion isn't in favor of persuasion being if you lose you have to go along with anything. Only that you were persuaded. It's not a doesn't work at all or you are a slave to whatever plan or idea was trying to be gotten across. Only that you are persuaded to help. It's up to the player than is role playing that character to decide what help would be given. If you won a persuasion roll trying to talk me into killing my brother I might just knock you out and turn you into the cops Telling them"This guy seems like he really needs help that I can't give him. Please get him some friggin help".</p><p></p><p>So yeah drastically trying to alter what someone is willing to do isn't going to work. It's not magic. It's not turning the character into something he isn't. It IS a nudge towards helping and sometimes it can mean a huge change if that's something the player character wants to do. If it's not.....well at least the persuading character is typically viewed in the best light. The best light for a murdering psychopath is still pretty dang dark however.</p><p></p><p>That does seem to be one of the factors holding back the No Skills verse other pc's crowd. The idea that they somehow lose control over there character. They don't....they just need to take the persuasion into account. Also the pc doing the persuading should take that into account but that takes some minor thinking....I mean you are not going to convince a LG Paladin look the other way and let you steal no matter how good you roll, you MIGHT however convince him that that guy you know who is crooked and a thief stole from the church so the Paladin goes off to deal with him leaving you free of his gaze.......just be careful when he gets back and wants to have a word with you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GameOgre, post: 7533843, member: 57914"] All of this is hogwash. The side in favor of skill verse skill for persuasion isn't in favor of persuasion being if you lose you have to go along with anything. Only that you were persuaded. It's not a doesn't work at all or you are a slave to whatever plan or idea was trying to be gotten across. Only that you are persuaded to help. It's up to the player than is role playing that character to decide what help would be given. If you won a persuasion roll trying to talk me into killing my brother I might just knock you out and turn you into the cops Telling them"This guy seems like he really needs help that I can't give him. Please get him some friggin help". So yeah drastically trying to alter what someone is willing to do isn't going to work. It's not magic. It's not turning the character into something he isn't. It IS a nudge towards helping and sometimes it can mean a huge change if that's something the player character wants to do. If it's not.....well at least the persuading character is typically viewed in the best light. The best light for a murdering psychopath is still pretty dang dark however. That does seem to be one of the factors holding back the No Skills verse other pc's crowd. The idea that they somehow lose control over there character. They don't....they just need to take the persuasion into account. Also the pc doing the persuading should take that into account but that takes some minor thinking....I mean you are not going to convince a LG Paladin look the other way and let you steal no matter how good you roll, you MIGHT however convince him that that guy you know who is crooked and a thief stole from the church so the Paladin goes off to deal with him leaving you free of his gaze.......just be careful when he gets back and wants to have a word with you. [/QUOTE]
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