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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7535034" data-attributes="member: 16814">What's the real difference between choosing your own flaw and where you put your one 8?&nbsp; Or your 11, if you're using point buy and choose to stay average?&nbsp; Or your one 16, because your table uses roll 8d6 keep highest and assign to taste?&nbsp; Your argument here is that traits are malleable and stats aren't, but stats are just as malleable as traits, you're just choosing to ignore that.I assure you I am not.&nbsp; Coming face to face with honestly held different beliefs can look like that if you're unwilling to step back and actually consider where it's coming from.&nbsp; I recommend playing in a few sessions of any of the Powered by the Apocolypse games and seeing that there are, indeed, very different styles of play than your own.&nbsp; Perhaps then you'd consider that someone might have a rational, fully formed, and coherent style of play that isn't yours and doesn't lionize the same things your style does.&nbsp; I don't fetishize stats.&nbsp; I'm not to the point of&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION], though, in that I think that playing a 5 INT Sherlock Holmes is farcical because that character cannot actually perform in game according to archetype, but that's my dislike of farce in game, not a hard rule on what a 5 INT represents.&nbsp; I've no problem playing a 5 INT as not a drooling moron, because I don't think it represents that, either.Yes.&nbsp; Maybe?&nbsp; I'm asking the question because it seems like there's a contradiction in the statements and I'd curious as to what causes it.&nbsp; Maybe it'll make him change his mind, or maybe it'll provide a new avenue for discussion, or maybe it won't.&nbsp; If I don't ask, only the latter is sure to obtain.Oh, goodness, someone has forgotten their on a discussion forum.&nbsp; Of course it won't affect my table -- or will it?&nbsp; Because, in that 3 year old thread that was linked a few pages ago about NPCs using skills against PCs, I was on your side of the argument.&nbsp; Go read it, you'll see.&nbsp; I made a lot of the same arguments you and&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=6688937]Ratskinner[/MENTION] are making (and&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=6803664]ccs[/MENTION]).&nbsp; But, starting in that thread, and in a few more where I got mad at&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] (I've accused him of trolling, too, much to my future embarrassment), I started looking at how I run games, what I was doing, and realized that a lot of my dissatisfaction was how I was running -- what luggage I was bringing with me.&nbsp; I've changed my style since then, sought out a few good non-D&amp;D games to sample different concepts altogether, and fashioned a different playstyle that's much more&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] and&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=6776133]Bawylie[/MENTION] that my old one.So, yeah, maybe this is the start of a change and maybe it isn't, but whether or not it affects my table right now, this is still a discussion forum where we talk about pretending to be elves.Kumbaya, dude.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7535034, member: 16814"] What's the real difference between choosing your own flaw and where you put your one 8? Or your 11, if you're using point buy and choose to stay average? Or your one 16, because your table uses roll 8d6 keep highest and assign to taste? Your argument here is that traits are malleable and stats aren't, but stats are just as malleable as traits, you're just choosing to ignore that. I assure you I am not. Coming face to face with honestly held different beliefs can look like that if you're unwilling to step back and actually consider where it's coming from. I recommend playing in a few sessions of any of the Powered by the Apocolypse games and seeing that there are, indeed, very different styles of play than your own. Perhaps then you'd consider that someone might have a rational, fully formed, and coherent style of play that isn't yours and doesn't lionize the same things your style does. I don't fetishize stats. I'm not to the point of [MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION], though, in that I think that playing a 5 INT Sherlock Holmes is farcical because that character cannot actually perform in game according to archetype, but that's my dislike of farce in game, not a hard rule on what a 5 INT represents. I've no problem playing a 5 INT as not a drooling moron, because I don't think it represents that, either. Yes. Maybe? I'm asking the question because it seems like there's a contradiction in the statements and I'd curious as to what causes it. Maybe it'll make him change his mind, or maybe it'll provide a new avenue for discussion, or maybe it won't. If I don't ask, only the latter is sure to obtain. Oh, goodness, someone has forgotten their on a discussion forum. Of course it won't affect my table -- or will it? Because, in that 3 year old thread that was linked a few pages ago about NPCs using skills against PCs,[I] I was on your side of the argument[/I]. Go read it, you'll see. I made a lot of the same arguments you and [MENTION=6688937]Ratskinner[/MENTION] are making (and [MENTION=6803664]ccs[/MENTION]). But, starting in that thread, and in a few more where I got mad at [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] (I've accused him of trolling, too, much to my future embarrassment), I started looking at how I run games, what I was doing, and realized that a lot of my dissatisfaction was how I was running -- what luggage I was bringing with me. I've changed my style since then, sought out a few good non-D&D games to sample different concepts altogether, and fashioned a different playstyle that's much more [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6776133]Bawylie[/MENTION] that my old one. So, yeah, maybe this is the start of a change and maybe it isn't, but whether or not it affects my table right now, this is still a discussion forum where we talk about pretending to be elves. Kumbaya, dude. [/QUOTE]

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