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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 9403552" data-attributes="member: 20323">For me, one of the least satisfying areas of modern D&D and adjacent games are the treatment of Social skills, Lore skills, and Perception-type skills using the same mechanics as other action-oriented skills. I've found these approaches can open a door to lazy player habits that might not otherwise get opened (e.g. "Can I make a Perception check to search for traps", "What do I know about trolls? (hint hint)", or the ambiguity between a long dialogue and the group expectation of a Persuasion roll).I've often wondered how others playing OSR view these three "skill" types and why they're one of the fundamental differences between OSR and modern D&D, and if there's some way of bridging that or if they're fundamentally different paradigms. These 3 "skill" types specifically are given a different treatment in AD&D and earlier editions, even when non-weapon proficiencies enter the picture.Social Skills are subsumed by two mechanics: the Reaction Roll (to determine a NPC's initial attitude towards the party when it is uncertain to the GM, adjusted by Charisma) and the Morale Check (to determine when a monster flees or gives up, determined entirely by the monster's stat entry). The Reaction Roll seems to imply some level of skill or perhaps reputation or first impressions, and its closest analogue is something like a very specific use of Persuasion. Whereas the Morale Check is akin to Intimidation but there's no skill involved, rather there are certain benchmarks the PCs must make in order to trigger it. And any kind of Deception mechanic is not present.Lore Skills do start to enter the picture in 1.5e/2e with non-weapon proficiencies; though even then they have other functions in addition to their "lore dump" function. Before Oriental Adventures, however, lore skills are exclusively relegated as a special class feature given to bards (and even then it's more like magic item lore only). There is no equivalent to a monster knowledge check - it's based on what the players have gleaned through play. Because of this, there is a special class of NPC called Sages who PCs can turn to (once the PCs are swimming in gold) to get specific information they desire.Perception-type skills (including things like Investigation or Insight or any "what do I notice?" skills) in OSR are divided into two groups both using d6. The Find Secret/Concealed Doors roll is a d6 and is determined by race, with elves getting a bonus. Dwarves might get a clue from the GM based on their knowledge of stonework, but that's left ambiguous and up to the GM. Otherwise, secret doors are left to the devices of the players to locate and figure out. The other d6 roll is the Surprise Roll which sort of assumes a constant Stealth attempt and how alert the group is. Certain classes/races get improved chances here, and a high Dexterity mitigates how long a PC remains surprised for (high enough effectively makes you immune to being surprised). In other words, OSR assumes a base level of competence in sneaking and perceiving across all PCs with very minimal differentiation.Anyhow, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how/why these 3 skill types are so different between OSR and modern D&D, and maybe creative approaches to handling them, or ways you've house ruled them.</blockquote>

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