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<blockquote data-quote="triqui" data-source="post: 5913291" data-attributes="member: 57948"><p>It wasn't that way in D&D 3e either. Not until your czar wizard went out of the palace and killed a few goblins, so he took extra levels and the ranks started to shine over ability. Maybe your Cha 10 czar wizard should have more ability dancing, talking to people and playing the flute than the Cha 18 templar paladin, but that wasn't the case in 3e either. You had *at best* rank 4 in dance, diplomacy and perform (flute) -and that's so if you max the three skills, which often is not the case-, while the Chaladin has +4 in the 3 skills, even if he had no training at all. If you really want your czar wizard to outshine the charisma paladin in 3e, then your wizard has to go down to the bog, get into the mud, and start killing kobolds, dire rats, swamp cocodriles, a few stirges and a goblin shaman. THEN your wizard can dance, talk and play the flute better than the paladin, not before.</p><p></p><p>In 3e, I made a soldier (fighter, level 1), who was part of the city Watch. I had max ranks for my level (2, cross class skill) and I even took Alertness. I had +4 spot, and +2 listen. The group dwarven wizard had +5 on both, with no ranks at all. Once we got to level 10, I was +7 to spot (maxed ranks) and +2 to listen (had no more skill ranks to spend). By that time, the Cleric wisdom was (with magic enhancers) +8.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="triqui, post: 5913291, member: 57948"] It wasn't that way in D&D 3e either. Not until your czar wizard went out of the palace and killed a few goblins, so he took extra levels and the ranks started to shine over ability. Maybe your Cha 10 czar wizard should have more ability dancing, talking to people and playing the flute than the Cha 18 templar paladin, but that wasn't the case in 3e either. You had *at best* rank 4 in dance, diplomacy and perform (flute) -and that's so if you max the three skills, which often is not the case-, while the Chaladin has +4 in the 3 skills, even if he had no training at all. If you really want your czar wizard to outshine the charisma paladin in 3e, then your wizard has to go down to the bog, get into the mud, and start killing kobolds, dire rats, swamp cocodriles, a few stirges and a goblin shaman. THEN your wizard can dance, talk and play the flute better than the paladin, not before. In 3e, I made a soldier (fighter, level 1), who was part of the city Watch. I had max ranks for my level (2, cross class skill) and I even took Alertness. I had +4 spot, and +2 listen. The group dwarven wizard had +5 on both, with no ranks at all. Once we got to level 10, I was +7 to spot (maxed ranks) and +2 to listen (had no more skill ranks to spend). By that time, the Cleric wisdom was (with magic enhancers) +8. [/QUOTE]
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