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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Falling Icicle" data-source="post: 3726835" data-attributes="member: 17077">I never defended the BAB rules in 3.5 edition, so don't put those words in my mouth.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> That said, it isn't quite the same thing. D&D focuses heavily on combat, so it is fairly safe to assume that even wizards spend at least some of their time training in this area. It is quite another stretch to assume that the wizard has also spent time trianing in climbing, swimming, jumping, diplomacy, intimidating, sneaking, etc etc etc.I have never once, in all my years of playing this game, seen a wizard drown in a shallow pond. I think one problem is that people think a skill check should be required for almost everything a character does. If an action is easy, no roll should be required, imo. You don't ask your characters to roll to tie their shoes, do you? So why ask them to check to see if they drown in a shallow pond?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I don't like the way skills are handled in 3rd/3.5 edition either. I guess we just have different opinions on what the best way to change it would be. I don't think making everyone a talented generalist is the way to go. And to be honest, I don't particularly like the huge emphasis on levels either. Why not give the character's attributes a greater role instead? If I'm a very dextrous person, then it is reasonable to assume that I should be able to tumble, balance, etc fairly well, even without training. Having that based on levels makes broad experience and dabbling much more significant than natural ability, and I don't like that at all. A 20 Dexterity ends up meaning less than 20 levels in a class that has no emphasis on such skills whatsoever. I'm not comfortable with that.</blockquote>

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