NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="IanArgent" data-source="post: 3732724" data-attributes="member: 21673">I have tried to run this type encounter at mid-levels; it doesn't work; at and quite low levels the disconnect becomes obvious. Try this at third level and tell me what the Wizard, fighter, and Cleric do when they have to make a DC 20 Balance check (a challenge for the maxed-out balance-monkey - he has to roll 10 on his balance check if he's maxed Dex or a 12 if he skimped on a 14). Forget the cleric and wizard for a bit, you just handwaved the fighter completely (and I would like to point out that "being rescued by the fighter" != "being completely unable to participate in a fight because I can't make a balance check"). The fighter has neither innate ability to bypass balance checks, nor Balance on his skill list. Having to depend on a magic item shuts down all kinds of interesting "take-their-gear-away" adventures (another problem with mid-high D&D3.5 play, BTW). Or how about the poor sorcerer who didn't happen to choose the right spell for spells known?I also can't think of any Cleric spells that help you increase a balance check while wearing heavy armor (that pesky max dex rating strikes again) - certainly not in the PHB at low to mid-level.Nor anything short of flying that will let you bypass the need.IMHO (and in this case it appears to be the decision of Game Design) no player should spend any significant period of time during the game standing around doing nothing effective. And there are several skills that aren't worth putting character resources into in the general case right now, because the lack of them will stymie a party.I've yet to see any rogue in any campaign I've been in put any more ranks in Balance than necessary to get a synergy bonus; and I've had a hard time justifying putting ranks in Climb, given that by the time I've gotten anywhere, the casters can cast at least levitate. And when was the last time ANYONE not in a seafaring campaign put any ranks into swim at all?Considered in a vacuum, the Saga skills system is only so-so. One of my favorite gaming systems is Shadowrun, a pure point-based skills system. But in that system, the points-based-skill system isnt' a bolt-on. And, for better or for worse, it is in D20.And, quite frankly, unless a classes skill list numbers less than its available skills + 4, the 100% of characters looking the same is hyperbole. At least as long as all skill son a skill list are equal in use (which, to be fair, is not the case in D&D right now - saga appears to be a bit better with that).We can all cherry-pick our examples of use-cases that prove our respective points till the Tarrasque comes home; but it's a religious issue in the end. I want all characters to have a chance, even if it's somewhat remote, to do something in a scenario that challenges the expert. Several people disagree.I justify my stance by saying it's not fun for the players if they can't do anything; and therefore I have to design around NO-ONE having the relevant skills if it is to be an encounter for the whole party, or setting DCs low enough that unskilled users can pass. And if I want to run an adventure someone else wrote that assumes the entire party will be able to make their way down a crumbling staircase, under fire from goblin archers, after expending their entire magical resources in encounters earlier in the day?</blockquote>

Verification