NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="IanArgent" data-source="post: 3735296" data-attributes="member: 21673">I don't have a problem with low-level PCs being challenged by a DC 15 skill check (nor really with the thought that the rogue can auto-pass that skill check). I have a problem with mid-level PCs not being able to pass a DC 25 skill check that the skillmonkey still autopasses. I have a HUGE problem with a D20-based game that requires DCs in the 40's at the high end to deal with the maxed skillmonkey. Heck, when you require a DC35 to make the skillmonkey have a 50% chance of failing at what is nominally within the sweet-spot of 3.5 play (12th level), that's a problem too. You don't need a DC 35 to lock out untrained characters, a DC higher than 20 will do that more or less. (That is addressed to ByronD). Speaking of which:I'm not saying you can't make the system work; just stay away from the extreme skillmonkey. But the system starts creaking once the skillmonkey has a skill check +15 higher than the rest of the party, and is breaks once the skillmonkey is at +20 over the rest of his party. Or is a DC35 skill check a remotely appropriate challenge at 12th level, and a DC40 check an easy challenge at 20th level for the same character? Does the answer change depending on if he is with the rest of the party or not? I'm not being facetious here - this is a real question that has to be answered by game design; what is an appropriate DC for a challenge to a skilled character vs. an unskilled character at each level. Should the system be set up to encourage deep, focused characters, or broadly-skilled generalists, or someplace between?I haven't been arguing from this line earlier because it took writing up my previous posts to realize WHY the 3.5 skill system falls short when compared to SWSE. There's much too large a range of possible skill levels. And you have to take into account all of them in adventure design. You have to account for the skillmonkey that has been maxing 8+int skills, focusing on any of them; plus you have to account for the skillmonkey who decided to go for half-max in 16+2xInt skills, with no feats spent on the skills. That means there's a difference in the skill check for a [i[skilled[/i] character of up to 5+1/2 level. IOW, the jack of all trades has a skill check of 10 worse than the focused skillmonkey at 12th level. As I posted earlier, it could be dealt with by simply halving max ranks per level; but that's rather more than halfway to SWSE already. Plus, it's just wonky in that you get x skill points but can only advance x/2 skills when you level if you're maxing them all. I already use fractional accounting for saves and BAB, do I need to start using fractional skills as well? And if you go for the half-max option, the trained skill user still doesn't get to be +5 better than the untrained user until he's 8th level anyway (barring feats and assuming the same control stat). If he goes for the feat option, he has to blow 2 feats to get +5 to a skill (and +2 to another) under 3.5. Or you can go to Saga which has a +5 for skill focus for one feat, and a relatively larger # of feats anyway.But you can deal with the PCs advancing their combat abilities either by advancing the skills of the opponents, or by increasing the number of opponents. Also, to a certain extent, the D20 system DOES advance the skills of opponents, by advancing the CR of the expected opponents.I'm not trying to be argumentative for it's own sake. I don't think the SWSE system is the best possible answer to the question of skills in a D20 system. For all I know, WotC will go with reducing the max skill ranks per level cap, or something like that. I feel that the SWSE skill system is a better answer than what we have now, that's all.</blockquote>

Verification