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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Plane Sailing" data-source="post: 331869" data-attributes="member: 114">I agree that some simple help in guestimating CR adjustments would probably be beneficial.One of the issues that comes up in my campaign a lot is the CR of undead, which are typically undervalued for my party which doesn't have a cleric. With turning available a group of 12 shadows is a nuisance, without turning available they are a fearsome challenge to a 7th level party.It would be interesting to break down CR in the same way that AC is broken down... AC 19 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural, +5 chainmail). Of course it isn't that simple, since CR is a multi-variant thing, but taking an example that gets mentioned a lot:Remorhaz. CR 7 (base 6*, +1 damage, +1 ambush, -1 no ranged).People have commented on how a remorhaz is very likely to kill at least one party member, especially if it ambushes (which is its modus operandii). Others have counter-commented that it is slow and can't respond to ranged attacks. This kind of breakdown for the Remorhaz might allow a DM deciding whether to use it what the relative threat is for his party. "Ah, they can all fly, so I can use it as-is" or "hmmm, nobody flies, it is a party of dwarfs with no missile weapons, so knock out that mitigating factor and recognise that it is as risky as a CR8 creature for my players".Off the top of my head I can't think of a complete list of suitable modifiers, but ones which I might want to include (since they dramatically affect the chance of killing party members)+1 Undead (to allow for easy adjustments when Clerics present)+1 Mobility (flying/incorporeal creatures are tougher)+1 Massive damage/death (creatures that could kill someone in one round with their attacks, or creatures with death attacks)+1 Area attack ability-1 well-known vulnerabilities-1 no ranged attacks or mitigating mobilitySome undead may be tougher than others and rate a higher bonus; please bear in mind that I'm not proposing an *actual* system, but thinking aloud about the way that I could envisage a system working.Cheers* HD/2 or whatever, I don't care for this example)</blockquote>

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