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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sonofapreacherman" data-source="post: 339647" data-attributes="member: 2315">The problem isn't the monster, it's the CR systemAs I understand it, the "Challenge Rating Factors" that Ryan Dancey is proposing could be abstracted as well; but the abstraction would be much more precise level than the current baseline Challenge Ratings, in addition to accounting for party abilities versus opponent abilities (which this system would also track).Once a list of Challenge Rating modifiers is created for all the generic special abilities, spell power levels, and extraordinary items, creating a value for any *new* abilities, powers, or items that are introduced into the game would be relatively easy to approximate (basing them on the values created by the aforementioned list).Okay, let's not exaggerate for effect. Exponentially is overstating the matter. Challenge Rating Factors represent a new idea, so we have to wrap our minds around it, much like we did when 3rd edition first came out. So rather than reexamining this system on a conceptual level (something I'm exceedingly guilty of doing) let's look at a practical example.As I see it (feel free to interject anytime Ryan) every monster would have a "base" Challenge Rating. Let's say that challenge rating is calculated as being ½ their Hit Dice or Level. A creature with 4 Hit Dice would therefore have a base Challenge Rating of 2 (for instance). Straightforward enough.Now for every special ability, spell power level, or extraordinary item that a monster benefits from, their Challenge Rating would be adjusted upwards accordingly. To use Ryan's example, let's say we're dealing with "undead", or more specifically, a large skeleton.A large skeleton, with 2 Hit Dice, would therefore have a base Challenge Rating of 1. Moreover, as I already stated, a large skeleton is obviously undead. As per Ryan's earlier supposition, let's say that equals a +2 Challenge Rating modifier. Skeletons also have an immunity package, making them invulnerable to cold attacks and resilient to piecing and slashing weapons. Fine... for the sake of argument let's say that adds another +1 to the final Challenge Rating of a large skeleton.So what we have is an undead creature with a modified Challenge Rating of 4. I'm sure this seems kind of high at first, but let's see how the skeleton rates in a few moments.Along comes a group of adventures. Lo and behold it turns out there's a cleric in the party! Right away the threat of undead has been diminished significantly with the presence of at least one character who can turn/destroy undead. This effectively nullifies the +2 Challenge rating modifier given to the skeleton for being undead. Secondly, it turns out that at least one-half the party carries a spare bludgeoning weapon with them, canceling out the skeleton immunity package.Suddenly our scary Challenge Rating 4 large skeleton has been reduced to a Challenge Rating 1 annoyance. Simple.I've taken a few paragraphs to explain myself, but only for the purpose of edification. Such a mental calculation could be resolved instantly. Basically, for almost every generic special ability, spell power level, or extraordinary item, there would be a counter-acting force that *cancels out* their Challenge Rating Factors (all dependant on whichever abilities and items the party currently possesses).So here come the next big question...Is a detailed system of Challenge Rating Factors better than making a good ole fashioned judgment call (modifying baseline Challenge Ratings on the fly)?Well, assuming that a dungeon master is interested in being conscientious and "fair", then I believe that any system which helps them to achieve that goal is a good one. Moreover, once a system of Challenge Rating Factors is in place there are still plenty of judgment calls left for the dungeon master to make (believe you me). I would think that any system which alleviates some of the needless "end-of-game" calculations would be a welcome one.</blockquote>

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