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<blockquote data-quote="evildmguy" data-source="post: 347463" data-attributes="member: 6092">Reverse it?Greetings!Okay, there have been some good ideas here but I wonder if we don't need to turn things sideways and look at them that way?A lot of the current discussion goes on potential.&nbsp; If something can do it, even if they never use it, that it adds to the CR for that monster.&nbsp; Discussion further says that if something is +x1 that it is negated by -x1 for overall challange rating.&nbsp; What if we came at this from the opposite direction?Take the base, which I liked at 1/2 HD.&nbsp; Then, anything they used or that came into effect, add to the CR of the monster.&nbsp; At the end of the battle, add these up to figure the CR for the group.For example, a creature with undead (+1) and spell casting (+2) attacks the group.&nbsp; During the fight, the rogue attempted a sneak attack and would have succeeded except for the undead ability.&nbsp; The creature never got a chance to even try to cast a spell, so that never came into play.&nbsp; In the end, then, the creature's CR was 1/2 its HD +1.&nbsp; This would seem to take into effect what did happen instead of what could happen.&nbsp; (Also, notice that because someone was affected by the undead quality, even with a cleric present, the group gets the xp for the undead quality the monster had.)There are 3 quick problems with this system, and CRs in this discussion, as a whole:1)&nbsp; At higher levels, this ends up being a lot to track.&nbsp; If the DM uses multiple monsters with different abilities, all must tracked as they come into play.&nbsp; (this isn't tough, that's not my point.&nbsp; It just slows combat and the game down to be tracked)2)&nbsp; The core rules seem to indicate that whatever abilities a person has IS part of them and not tracked separately.&nbsp; For example, even if a spell caster summons ten monsters, none of the monsters count towards xp.&nbsp; Only the spell caster does.&nbsp; Her CR counts the ability to summon monsters.&nbsp; (I wonder if this indirectly says that potential *does* count?)&nbsp; 3)&nbsp; In the end, isn't it a wash?&nbsp; I mean, when we start averaging these things, as a whole, over the long term they all wash out!&nbsp; Why complicate the system for what is possibly a small pay back?Just some coppers.edg</blockquote>

[QUOTE="evildmguy, post: 347463, member: 6092"] [b]Reverse it?[/b] Greetings! Okay, there have been some good ideas here but I wonder if we don't need to turn things sideways and look at them that way? A lot of the current discussion goes on potential. If something can do it, even if they never use it, that it adds to the CR for that monster. Discussion further says that if something is +x1 that it is negated by -x1 for overall challange rating. What if we came at this from the opposite direction? Take the base, which I liked at 1/2 HD. Then, anything they used or that came into effect, add to the CR of the monster. At the end of the battle, add these up to figure the CR for the group. For example, a creature with undead (+1) and spell casting (+2) attacks the group. During the fight, the rogue attempted a sneak attack and would have succeeded except for the undead ability. The creature never got a chance to even try to cast a spell, so that never came into play. In the end, then, the creature's CR was 1/2 its HD +1. This would seem to take into effect what did happen instead of what could happen. (Also, notice that because someone was affected by the undead quality, even with a cleric present, the group gets the xp for the undead quality the monster had.) There are 3 quick problems with this system, and CRs in this discussion, as a whole: 1) At higher levels, this ends up being a lot to track. If the DM uses multiple monsters with different abilities, all must tracked as they come into play. (this isn't tough, that's not my point. It just slows combat and the game down to be tracked) 2) The core rules seem to indicate that whatever abilities a person has IS part of them and not tracked separately. For example, even if a spell caster summons ten monsters, none of the monsters count towards xp. Only the spell caster does. Her CR counts the ability to summon monsters. (I wonder if this indirectly says that potential *does* count?) 3) In the end, isn't it a wash? I mean, when we start averaging these things, as a whole, over the long term they all wash out! Why complicate the system for what is possibly a small pay back? Just some coppers. edg [/QUOTE]

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