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<blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 348524" data-attributes="member: 5890">I don't think you could ajudicate a CR based on what happened over a combat - it leads to the situation drnuncheon suggested.You should, however, be able to look at the party, look at the monster, and rule out of the CR any abilities which simply will not apply. For instance, if it's impossible for a cleric to turn a skeleton, due to his pathetic charisma, then the CR of the skeleton shouldn't be reduced due to his undeadness (which would be further broken down into turnable, immune to crits, immune to poison etc) - he's simply not going to be turned,. If the entire party have an immunity to acid, and they're fighting a black dragon, then the dragon's breath should be left out of the equation. If the party use backstabs and poison a lot, then a creature immune to those would be increased in CR a little. Note that in these cases, the defending party tends to get the benefit - the dragon will probably still try to breath on the party, buying them valuable time, the party will (possibly) still attempt backstabbing and poisoning.Saying that just because the cleric had the potential to turn before he chose a bad charisma is just being silly - you'd be reducing the CR of the creature for no reason. You could make the same argument for any of the cr-modifying items we've already mentioned.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Saeviomagy, post: 348524, member: 5890"] I don't think you could ajudicate a CR based on what happened over a combat - it leads to the situation drnuncheon suggested. You should, however, be able to look at the party, look at the monster, and rule out of the CR any abilities which simply will not apply. For instance, if it's impossible for a cleric to turn a skeleton, due to his pathetic charisma, then the CR of the skeleton shouldn't be reduced due to his undeadness (which would be further broken down into turnable, immune to crits, immune to poison etc) - he's simply not going to be turned,. If the entire party have an immunity to acid, and they're fighting a black dragon, then the dragon's breath should be left out of the equation. If the party use backstabs and poison a lot, then a creature immune to those would be increased in CR a little. Note that in these cases, the defending party tends to get the benefit - the dragon will probably still try to breath on the party, buying them valuable time, the party will (possibly) still attempt backstabbing and poisoning. Saying that just because the cleric had the potential to turn before he chose a bad charisma is just being silly - you'd be reducing the CR of the creature for no reason. You could make the same argument for any of the cr-modifying items we've already mentioned. [/QUOTE]

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